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Doemaster. No, I mean adapt. Its a free country. You're free to use your talents to earn and save some money for some hunting land. You're also free to succumb, then voice your displeasure through your freedom of speech.

I'm not saying what's happening is a good thing. I'm just telling you how things went here in Wisconsin. I would expect it to happen in Iowa sooner or later. Hopefully most of you guys will figure out a way to keep Iowa something special for most people to enjoy it. I think Wisconsin is that way. I don't think Illinois is.
 
As much as I hate to say it, I think high dollar leasing is here to stay. I drive a new truck and I own an ATV. Does that mean that I can afford to pay 3000.00 dollars for the privelage to hunt on someone elses land? No, not really. Would my wife let me? Not a chance in hell!! Could I afford to pay 500.00 dollars for a lease? Yeah, I could do that. Hell, I can drop that at the sports stores on bowhunting accessories that I don't even need or use.
My suggestion is to do what I'm seeing more and more in state hunters do. Team up together and lease a property for themselves. That may sound a bit selfish to some of you, but believe me its come down to that, whether you want to believe it or not.

CRITRGITR
 
WK,

I guess most of us aren't as high up on the Darwinian ladder as you are. It's not always as easy as you make it sound. In your opinion, am I less deserving to partake in my personal obsession(bowhunting) than you are because I am void of "talent"?

WK

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DM -

Who said you were devoid of talent? That said, there's a lot of talentless folks out there that either by design or by accident have found a way to acquire some land or find a good hunting spot.

As far as deserving? That has nothing to do with anything. In this country, you're free to choose a destination and how you get there brother. Doesn't matter where on the ladder you are now, its where you want to be that counts.

If you don't have a spot to hunt, only you can do something about it. Barking about it on a forum like this really isn't getting you where you want to be, now is it?

Stupid is as stupid does DM.
 
The concept of " leasing " certainly has become a hot issue amongst sportsmen everywhere. I like the idea of attempting to brainstorm some ideas here without attacking one another, etc. So let's make a fair attempt at doing just that........

What constitutes a lease? If a hunter helps out the landowner with seasonal work, etc... and tosses in a Ham at Christmas time...

what about if the hunter offers a service for the right to hunt..... say he is a carpenter and provides some remodeling work, etc for the privilege to hunt.....

Does a lease always have to be in writing?

What if the landowner never allowed hunting for years due to bad past experiences.... and now leases to a group of individuals whom he has selected..... is that bad?

Since when does the landowner not have the right to choose who is allowed to 'trespass' on his land? ....... it is suddenly wrong if he charges a 'access' or 'user' fee? ......

Remember now we are just brainstorming......

There will always be public land...... do I enjoy the idea of hunting public ground after having access to quality private ground.... NO WAY!!!

Let's look at this from a different angle...... maybe it is the quantity of hunters that is creating the problem. Does not increasing the efficiency of weapons used lead to more 'hunters' in the woods? More hunters means greater property demands..... thus some choose to lease to increase their chances quality property. Does not all the publicity the 'Big Buck Mags' give Iowa and the other Midwest states create some of the problem?

Unfortunately, hunting is no different than anything else...... supply and demand. Look at the millions of dollars made each year by all the gear manufactures, etc. Iowa raises their license fees and they still sell out....... how high can they go before the majority say 'No'?

'Leasing' is here to stay.... that is capitalism. I don't think that hunting is going to be a sport for only the rich...... but if you are getting access to quality ground and giving nothing back to the landowner, don't be surprised if one day you no longer have access.
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While I have only hunted and lived in Iowa for a couple of years, I know what the hunting here is worth. My former home in Michigan lied right in the best area in the state for big bucks. However, you might as well save your breath trying to get permission to hunt, because if its not leased they hunt it. Everybody hunts what little land there is. I have never seen a boone and crocket buck there in my life. Around here I may see ten in a year. My biggest fear that Michigan is only the begining and Iowa is next. HUNTING IN IOWA IS LIKE HUNTING IN MICHIGAN TEN YEARS AGO. I like how the nonresident tags are restricted by zones, but I think they need to cut back on them even more.
 
Oh No, Maybe the wifes homemade candy and a framed photo of the land owner with me and the buck I got won't be enough at Christmas. Where the heck is my wallet!

Just an observation. Farmers seem to get alot of sympathy for the woes the face, ecomomy ect. Fact is farming is a business and not everyone is capable of operating a business. Hunting lease or not alot of guys pi$$ away the family farm through lack of business savy or lack of ambition. It's raining so they drive 25 miles to Thiesens because lightbulbs are on sale. Then stop in for a few hands of Eucher and some beverages, nap time. Maybe it won't be raining tomorrow, but we sure can use it.
 
WK,

I'm pretty sure you're barking as loud as everybody else, except yours is directed at hunters less fortunate than you from your soap box made of Muenster cheese.

P.S. See Scout's 12-11 post under the Timber Ghost topic-Lease and own access WILL be hunting's downfall. It will squeeze a large percentage of lower and middle class out. Too bad you say? They didn't "adapt"? Hunters with little means are every bit as important to the cause of preserving our hunting heritage as the ones who are more fortunate. Cut our numbers, our strength, our overall voice, and we will be overwhelmed.
 
Solutions aren't reached by calling each other stupid or superiour, they are reached by communication. Let's just look at the problem of numbers. Timberghost said they control 3300 acres. That is over 5 square miles. How many hunters do they have on that much land? 25 or 30 maybe. If this ground were open to no fee hunting how many people would hunt it? 75 or more? As access goes down then hunter numbers will also decline, and with that a declining power base. We need more numbers not less. Having more acres available should at least keep our numbers the same if not increase. While I might not care for the increased competetion, without it there will soon be nothing to compete for.

What are your thoughts on using some sort of a program with CRP lands and payments to cut down on the lease problems. I hate to keep saying this but we need solutions not bitching and fighting, that only helps decrease numbers. Thanks for listening.
 
I completely disagree with the middle class being squeezed out. That has not happened at all here in Wisconsin. The vast majority of the middle class has purchased a hunting tract or banded with friends or neighbors to buy some land.

The bottom line is that many guys have had a "free ride" and have not had to pay for hunting access. Sounds to me that Iowa is at the same point Wisconsin was at 20 years ago.

Hunting is a high-quality recreation. High quality things cost money. With land supply shrinking, that only means one thing...you're likely going to have to own land, or your going to have to pay for access going forward. Sounds like you even know that DM by your frequent use of the word "will" in your last paragraph.

Will that be the downfall of hunting? That has yet to be determined. But there is no way that you will be able to stand up to the economic laws of supply and demand, no matter how much you despise them.
 
The term "hunting heritage" will have certainly changed.

To say hunters have been getting a "free ride" sound like you don't view hunting as a right.

There is no doubt in my mind many Wisconsin hunters have not banned together to buy land . They just stopped hunting. The occasional hunters will bail out. Sure the hard core gotta hunt guys will stay. Point is we need everyone not just the hard core few.
 
Hello,

"If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude. Don't complain."
-Maya Angelou

Just something to ponder......

Good Hunting....Raven
 
I think some of you mistook me. I havent seen ten booners while hunting, more like three or four. I have seen at least ten over the last four months through scouting, shining, videotaping. I took a 160 inch buck and my partner took a 174 inch buck(on film).
 
I agree MAYA ANGELOU is somthing to ponder!
Can't we all just get along
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Hay you been watching Ophra?
 
I thought the big thing now was Dr. Phil. Raven, you bring up some unpleasant questions about yourself when you start quoting Maya Angelou.

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<---Maya Angelou quoter
 
Being an outsider I see one big plus for you guys and that's the limited number of NR license sold. Here in SC we sell over 18,000 NR license. Most of the land is own by timber companies and it is lease to the highest biddder. I pay $800 a year to hunt 10,000 acres with 130 other hunters. We have QDM requirments of 15" min or 150#.

The negative I see is the cost of a NR tag, if the cost was reduce I think more guys would apply in the neighboring states pushing the time it takes to draw a tag from two year to three of four years. If a guy can only hunt once every three or four years he is not going to lease land.

The outfitter would also suffer with more NR applying,IMO.

I personally plan on coming to Iowa and hunt on public land and maybe a farm if I can gain permission but the idea of an outfitter is a turn off to me. I rather scout for two days and hunt for four than be hand led by a guide but that's my preference.

I think Kansas made a big mistake with the landowner tags. It caused serious problems for locals that footed the bill to get the herd they have and now the DNR has sold them out IMO.

Iowa has the best thing going right now and I hope to come hunt soon. I rather wait and come every few years than have it ruined or pushed out of my price range never to be able to come back.

BTW I'm not complaining about the price of NR tag, well worth it in my opinion but lowering the price may be an option to reduce leasing. But I like the idea of coming every two years.
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Jeez,

Yeah, please delete my quote from what's her face. I just like quotes and grabbed that one out of a book and tossed it in there quick without paying much attention to who it was from! Dumb me!

Didn't even really remember who Maya Angelou was at the time! (Don't pay much attention to vegetarian poets, I guess).

Anyway, how's this one: "if I'd have just invested $1,000,000 in that back then, I'd be a rich man today" I think that one's from Larry Bird, if I remember right -- kind of stupid and doesn't quite fit at well but at least the guy eats meat and likes to fish/hunt!

Hey, good hunting!

Raven
 
Ya had me a bit scared there for a second, Raven. The Larry Bird quote is much better.
 
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