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Hung with own rope

dbltree

dbltree

Super Moderator
Some outfitters have been getting a big surprise lately when the NR hunters they are "guiding" turned around and bought the farms the outfitters had leased. For some the sky is the limit and in some cases the NR offers have been near $3000 an acre.
Of course this means the outfitters have to lease more land to make up for what they lost. Now the DNR is looking to cash in on NR $$'s by increasing the tag quota. At $2-3000 and acre a couple million won't go far to buy public land and I suspect little ground will ever be bought...it sounds good on paper though.
The whole situation seems to be spiraling wildly out of control. No one at the state level has any idea how bad things are. Niether the DNR or the Legislature have a clue. Outfitters are springing up faster then dandelions in spring, even NR's are getting in on the action.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the deer herd, already nearly impossible to control, will get even worse as land quickly becomes off limits to all but a few. I wouldn't be surprised if in time the IDNR will end up being sued to force them to "control" the deer herd and they will find that they have...hung themselves with thier own rope!
 
Again...just another example of hunting becoming something only the rich will be able to afford. Sure maybe not in my lifetime, but it's on it's way.
 
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Again...just another example of hunting becoming something only the rich will be able to afford.

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Sure looks that way. I am very very fortunate to own my own place and I don't have anything against outfitters or NR's...landowners or otherwise, however things are going to become more complicated and at a rapid rate. The conventional "wisdom" as far as management of our deer herd will no longer apply and the oppurtunity for the average guy to find a place to hunt will no longer exist.
Maybe I shouldn't even worry about it (although I certainly am)after all if a NR buys the farm next to me...more then likely they
will practice some form of QDM
not steal my gates, trail camera's and tree stands
not party hunt, drive ATV's across my place or run dogs thru it
most likley won't be able to hunt in the late season...so no worries about shed bucks or HP rifles......
heck maybe they should just "open the gates and turn em loose"!
Seriously...I hope everyone make's their voice heard before it's too late.
 
Iowa Department of Natural Resources Deer Biologist Willie Suchy.....

I am very interested in your response to this question.

What do you see as being the possitive/negative effects to Iowa deer hunting and the Iowa deer herd by increasing the NR deer license quota?
 
I hate pour from a glass that is always half empty but in my mind this whole process is inevetible. We have seen it here in South Dakota for pheasants. If you get in the heartland of pheasant country in South Dakota you won't get on a piece of private property for less than $300/day. Don't even bother road hunting birds ( which is legal in South Dakota) because these greedy landowners and outfitters will be watching you and will be a real thorn in your side. That is why in my mind I am glad I don't live in a state that produces world class whitetails year after year. It will get to the point where if you don't own your own land, you will be forced to hunt public. You and everybody else. Don't get me wrong, I love big bucks as much as the next guy, but in my mind, big bucks are the reason for all this greed. Nothing will get people more greedy than a huge buck, wheter it be outfitters, landowners, leasees, or friends. That is just my opinion.
 
I have been following this issue for many years via Iowawhitetail.com, and it gets closer and closer to passing every year. In my opinion, its only a matter of time before NR tags are increased and eventually you will have IL situation on your hands.

To be honest, my hunting in IA was not all that great this past year anyway(I hunt mostly public land). This will likely make it worse on public grounds.

I enjoy hunting new states, maybe its time to start looking at a couple more.
 
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Iowa Department of Natural Resources Deer Biologist Willie Suchy.....

I am very interested in your response to this question.

What do you see as being the possitive/negative effects to Iowa deer hunting and the Iowa deer herd by increasing the NR deer license quota?

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Clearly this is the part that I think no one at the state level understands. NR landowners in my area already control very large tracts of very prime habitat and they are buying entire farms at an ever increasing rate. These farms were once hunted by local hunters and they took large numbers of deer. That no longer happens when it is sold to a NR landowner, instead it becomes a deer sanctuary. Of course the same thing happens if a resident deer hunter buys the ground, however there are obviously large numbers of hunters in other states who have the wealth to buy the very best that Iowa has to offer. I certainly don't blame them in anyway. A NR landowner is going spend his or her vacation time hunting what Iowa is famous for...not killing does in the late season. The state can open the season year around and give the tags away...and it will all be a moot point when there is no place for hunters to hunt.
So...when the insurance companies and IFB demand that the IDNR do something...anything to control the deer herd...their hands will be tied. Unless you live here...I mean out in the country, where eveybody knows everybody, where everyone knows who owns what, then you have not the slightest conception of reality. As noted in my previous post...why should I even care? I see a huge problem getting worse every day and we havn't even increased the tag quota yet!!
Not ranting at Willie either, he has some excellent ideas that would at least help but they won't listen to him, why would I think they would listen to me?
 
What burns me like a campfire about waist high is this is a DNR request!
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Iowa Department of Natural Resources request more out-of-state turkey and deer licenses be issued, said Dale Garner, chief of the department's wildlife bureau, and Diane Ford-Shivvers, the department's legislative liaison.

Although natural resources officials have their own requests, others will most likely come up throughout the session. Garner said interest groups and legislators will add their own bills and requests to the mix as the session wears on.

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What burns me like a campfire about waist high is this is a DNR request!
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Iowa Department of Natural Resources request more out-of-state turkey and deer licenses be issued, said Dale Garner, chief of the department's wildlife bureau, and Diane Ford-Shivvers, the department's legislative liaison.

Although natural resources officials have their own requests, others will most likely come up throughout the session. Garner said interest groups and legislators will add their own bills and requests to the mix as the session wears on.

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Exactly!! It seems the only hope we have is to contact our legislators and keep talking to them although it doesn't look good. Anyone who isn't an IBA member and making calls sure hadn't ought to complain when they have no place to hunt. No one should think that they are immune, when a farmer get's offered 3 grand an acre, a life lease and farming rights...you think your hunting spot won't be gone?? If you hunt on your Dad's farm and he get's that kind of offer, you think he won't sell?
Does the DNR Director think that his job won't be on the line when crop damage and car/deer accidents get even worse and people with more power then us...want answers?
How may of you really believe that the extra revenue will actually be used to buy state land?? When money hit's government it has a way of getting lost in the shuffle.....
 
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What do you see as being the possitive/negative effects to Iowa deer hunting and the Iowa deer herd by increasing the NR deer license quota?

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I can answer that question for you Ghost. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ That's all the legislature sees. The powers that be talk out of both sides of their mouth and are hypocrits(sp?). Sure they care about the deer herd when talking to your face, but when they see what the numbers look like...$$$ signs are what they see. If anyone thinks that adding a $100 doe tag to any-sex tag will help the herd is smoking something. How many NR's will shoot a doe before a buck whether they have that extra doe tag or not? Zero to maybe 5%? They will wait until after they shoot their buck..if they do at all and if it works out. Just another way to make more $$. Ok..I'm done with my rant.

Xtec
 
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I have lots of answers to my own question as well.

I was just interested to hear a response from our Iowa State Deer Biologist!
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guys,
is the deer heard really that high where there is a problem? are that that many deer there??? as in numbers? what about some kinda earn a buck program in certian areas? I do have the answers but it also sounds the the dnr does'nt know themselves?
 
Ever heard the term "Landed Gentry"?

It came from England. Only the Nobels (Landed Gentry) could own land (granted to them by the King or Queen)and therefore hunt on it. Not all Nobels owned land so there was a class distinction. I'm not sure about my next point, but it stands to reason, "Fishbonker" reason that is, that over the centuries it set up a sort of pecking order. Those Nobles that had land were looked down on for indulging in "Blood Sports" (hunting) by the non-landed Nobels and the non-landed Nobels were looked down on by the landed Nobles for not enjoying "Blood Sport". Prime example is Prince Charles and the late Princess Dianna. His family had land and hers, although Nobels, did not. I'm not 100% sure about the land ownership by Dianna's family, but as sure as I can be. She detested "Blood sport" and the Prince relished in them. If I recall my 8th grade history, the practice of only Nobels owning land was put to an end by the Magna Carta. 8th grade was along time ago so this too could be historically incorrect.

There of course is the parallel between folks who can afford to by land striclty for hunting with out much reguard or need for yearly cash crop income, but rather the long term investment potential, and the serfs who were allowed to hunt that land before the new breed of "Landed Gentry" disallowed their hunting privileges. This too will create anommosity between the new land owners and the neighbors who may have had hunting privileges before the sale.

What I'm trying to say is someday we will be back to a sort of "Landed Genty" where only the folks who are able to afford land will be able to hunt private ground and the serfs will be relegated to public ground. This may cause a decline in hunters and set up a scenario where disenfranchised hunter's children, or their childern, become anti-hunter PETA supporters. It is a strech, but it could happen.

I will add a discliamer. I fully believe in the free enterprise system and I applaud those in America who can afford to purchase land. I will respect your rights and privilages as a land owner, resident or not. Unfortuately there are many out there who will not.

I'll go on to say (somebody stop me please), that there is no such thing as a free lunch. I can also see the day when land owners receiving money from either the State or Federal govenment for CRP type programs or receiving money from leasing their ground to outfitters or leasing to private hunters will have to submit a QDM type plan so the herd doesn't go crazy in their area. I have espoused these thoughts before, complete with land owner fees and outfitter licensing as a way to ensure some sort of population control. In other words, if you are able to control hunting on a given amount of acres, you are gonna pay the State for that privilge, beyond what you already pay in property taxes, for the right to do so unless you can prove, and verified by the State, that you are controling the deer herd. One way or another, if you wanna play, you gonna pay.

The 'Bonker

I shoulda done this in Word and then cut and pasted it. Or this site shoud have a spell checker. Or I should just SHUT UP!
 
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I was just interested to hear a response from our Iowa State Deer Biologist!
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Me too...

Are there really that many deer? In my area...driving to the main road can be a "white knuckle ride" doing the dodge n swerve!
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I guess the Director figures thousands of resident hunters would be happy to cram onto the few hundred acres of state land that they may buy
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dbltree,

You have made some great points and I agree with you totally. We wont hear from Willie Suchy on this just like we didnt hear from him before. I raised the question about increasing NR tags several times before on his posts, everytime with no anwser or response. This is just like the rifle season, they are trying to push it through under the radar. They figure they can get the extra NR revenue and give us residents more "oppurtunites" with these worthless extra seasons. You cant have it all. Take a drive through "the east coast", I mean southern Iowa, all those deer are gonna live long happy lives in their increasing in size sanctuaries. Not ragging on Willie, but he needs to rag on someone that can make a difference.
 
The future direction of our sport as it relates to land access is precisely why I have not encouraged my son to hunt more with me. Right now his "passion" is basketball and he is working hard at it. We share a love of basketball and spend time together each winter as I coach a traveling team he has played on for four years. It is a time of the year which I look forward to each winter. I have told him that I am not going to take him on public ground to hunt (my only opportunity presently). I fear that by the time his interest turn to the outdoors that his opportunities will be worse than mine. It is the reality but I am not going to encourage him to pursue the sport as a "hobby" when I fear the frustrations associated with it in the future are going to far outweigh the enjoyment. It's depressing to think about
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BJ
 
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