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Mature Bucks

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UNI Buck

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Do mature bucks ever relocate? My father owns land about a mile away from someone that owns around 2000 acres who doesn't recieve a lot of pressure so large bucks are often seen on his land. Our neighbors shot a 190" inch typical that was roaming our land this year, and I was just wondering what the chance another large buck to relocate over to our land.
I guess I'm also wondering if during the rut any of his deer will come our way, also.
 
The experiences I've had would lead me to believe that mature bucks will relocate. Over the years I have been lucky enough to take some nice mature bucks out of the same location, which every year seem to be replaced with one just as big or bigger. It's like the old addage with big bass. If you take one out of the pond, his old preferred hole will soon be occupied by another large fish. If you had a 190 inch deer roaming your ground, there was a reason for it. Another mature buck is sure to move in, if there isn't another one already there. Also, I feel that if you have a lot of mature bucks in one area, like on your neighbor's, a couple of them are surely going to get bumped out. They may still hang out there during the summer but once that velvet comes off, I'm sure they will be staking out territories some place else. That's just my thoughts.
 
I agree completely with J.D. and the same is true of big Gobblers. Bust one off his strut zone and usually in less than a week another will take his place. Now for my question....how far in a strait line during the pre rut period have you guys known of mature bucks traveling? Hunting in Iowa three years ago, I was sitting on a fence line and had a BIG buck get past me (I was looking the wrong way ouch!) at exactly 3 p.m. After dark I was driving back to my camper in Missouri and over 4 miles from my hunting spot and a mile into Missouri I saw, I swear, the same deer. Is this possible? The nasty part is that it was rifle season in Missouri and needless to say I never saw him again.
 
"Do mature bucks ever relocate? Mature bucks have a home range based on Security and food. If any of the two are changed to a great extent he will move out. Let a pack of free roaming dogs get into a bucks home range and kill a few deer he is gone.
If his food source is greatly depleated he will find a better spot. I think that hunting presure only makes the more mature bucks causions about there movement. They will patern hunters and avoid them until they are out of the area, staying bedded down tight.
Mature bucks will increase their range during the rut, even more so during later part of the rut when they are looking for the last does to come into season. So yes, you could have mature bucks in an area during the rut that are not normaly seen.

It is very possable that the 190" was on your land much of the year and not seen if he has good security and food.

How many smaller bucks were killed on your land the past few years?
 
Keystone - We have not harvested any small bucks in last two years. We mainly just bowhunt, and just sit in stands during shotgun season, not wanting to push any deer off our land. The neighbors really pressure the deer and do drive after drive during the first shotgun season.
This year during bow I saw this huge typical twice, but saw like 5 or so bucks that would score around 120-130, and several basketracks. I know that none of these bucks will be huge next year, so thats why I question whether another dominant buck might come over. Oviously the deer have all of the security where they are on the 2000 acres, but will a large buck come over and take over our woodlot and be the dominant buck?
 
UNI BUCK,

I talked in general terms with my first response. How big is your wood lot and what are it's boarders like? You stated you are a mile from the 2000 akers, what is between your land and that land on all sides?

Again, I think that there has to be big changes to make a Mature buck leave his home range.

On an other note, seeing a 1 huge typical and 5 120 to 130 class bucks is not bad!
If you manage the land well and have enough land you can have muture bucks to hunt.

How do you define a "Dominate Buck" VS a mature buck?
 
I don't know about relocating entirely, but I think that if a big buck is patrolling the borders of his core area and comes across some does with no big boy protecting them, he may include some of that area as his own. Keep in mind too that 2000 acres is going to have several dominant bucks as well as many subordinate bucks. One of these subordinate bucks may relocate to find an area of his own, and there is a lot of room between a 190 class buck and what I would consider a trophy. I would agree though that it is unlikely that a big, dominant buck would change his core area unless there were extreme circumstances
 
I may be totally off base here, but I thought I would run it by anyways. The mature buck of the area might not be the one with the biggest rack. This year where I was hunting it was told to me that a smaller basket rack buck was pushing around the 13pointer that I eventually ended up shooting. Well the smaller rack buck was smaller just in the rack, it had one of the biggest bodies on it that I have ever seen, since I too did mangage to get a look at it hunting as well. So please forgive me if I'm way off base, but in the animal world, isn't the mature buck the one that can take care of business in his area?

I think it is great that you have these big antlered dominant bucks in your area, and believe me I wish I could see all the large deer that you see. Please though tell me I'm way off base on what I'm suggesting or if there might be some merrit in it.
 
Mature, dominant, and biggest aren't adjectives that necessarily describe the same animal regardless of species (or person, for that matter). The biggest buck may not be the baddest--he may be more laid back in attitude, whereas a smaller buck may have a bigger attitude and therefore be the dominant buck. Both could be mature, in the the sense of being at the peak of rack development. I think that many times the biggest, smartest, and most elusive buck may not actually be dominant. He may have "gotten over that", got smart watching his bad boy friends get shot after getting "rut stupid", or maybe never did care that much about the "rut thing", just hid out in a little patch somewhere and got big. Huge tracks left during the night or sheds might be the only thing that lets you know he even exists.

Have had the same experience with boss turkeys. In one case the boss absolutely refused to come to a call, until last day of the season when he was the only one still gobbling. A couple of calls "over the shoulder" to hide direction brought him strutting almost a quarter mile across a disked corn field---and would have been the end of him, EXCEPT that he was smart enough to stay 50 yards out into the field, and the "side kick" that always traveled with him was only 40. He got a little smarter that day, and also had to get a new buddy. Not all bad, though--the side kick was the bigger bird.

Same thing last year at another location. The clear boss of the area was not the biggest bird, actually rather average.

I know this is the whitetail conference, not turkey, but it's the same thing. Buck I arrowed this fall wasn't the biggest, unfortunately the bigger buck ran away when the buck I harvested showed up to my grunt calls (aimed at the bigger buck, who wasn't impressed) with a definite attitude. And can't count how many times while pheasant hunting or whatever when I've kicked out a big buck who was all by himself in some little bit of trees or weeds, when there were smaller bucks running with the ladies (and later riding in the back of a pickup).

Not a universal truth, but the biggest isn't necessarily the dominant. And then there's always the "Napolean complex" to consider.

Thanks for letting me interrupt your conversation.

GD
 
fastflyght,

Your responce is why I asked the question "define Mature buck VS Dominate buck"

My experiance has also shown that the dominate buck of the area does not always have biggest rack. He very often has the largest body size.

During the rut I belive that all bucks will extend their home range. Later in the rut the more dominate bucks will extend this range even futher looking for the last does coming into season.

Less mature bucks will tend to establish a different home range more than the mature bucks if all conditions remain constant.
A give area can have many mature bucks and a few dominate bucks. Buck/doe is an other factor.
 
As far as our woodlot, it is around 100 acres and our neighbors have another couple hundred more that is on a couple sides of ours. We also have food plots which draw many of the neighbors deer onto our land. There are fingers going off our woods and the neighbors which would make it easy for a deer to travel with protection.

Ok, I know that the prospect in the upcoming years is great for another "large antlered buck"(notice the terminology)to be on our land due to the number of 120-130 class deer on our land. But, if I assume that there are no bucks larger than that at the end of the hunting season on our land, which may be totally incorrect, that is how I'm wondering if any of the neighbors large bucks might come over.
 
UNI BUCK
OK! yes one of your neighbore's large bucks COULD come on you land! He might not "relocate" but he could be there.
 
When a buck gets big enough to be a threat to almost any other buck he may come across, he may entirely abandon his home range. I'm talking about world-class dominant bucks here. They just go from group of does to group of does, breeding those that are ready. Since they are really big they justmove in and take over, then move on when they are done. A big buck like this might start in one area, and end the rut 100 miles away. He might just settle down there and it will now be his home range until next breeding season.

They also move a lot during the winter to find food. I picked up the sheds of a buck one time and then the buck was shot the next season, seven miles away. The guy who shot him had been watching him for three years and had him patterned well. He couldn't believe that I had his sheds because he'd been searching high and low for them. Like I said, I picked them up 7 miles away near an unpicked cornfield. I'd have never known all this but we both showed up at a scoring session and it was obvious it was the same buck. He scored 167 typical I think.
 
Uni Buck you seem almost bummed out that you have seen 5 or so 120-130 class deer. Just a thought or two for you. The deer taken by Old Buck put on 70 inches in one year!!!! You can check his web site or just ask him on this site. This may be out of the ordinary even for a deer in his prime but then again who knows. I talked to Beatty at the Classic and they thought they had the sheds from his buck from two years prior. And he had put on 80 inches!!! So all I'm saying is even if you only put on 40 inches on a couple of those bucks your still looking at a couple of 170's in your woods. I guess I'd be pretty pumped about that. I hope that's the case for you.
Good hunting and God bless
Frank
 
I agree that a couple 130-140's would be nice to have in my area at this time of the year. Some of those will be great bucks next year.

I thought of another thing about buck movement. I read a study a few years back about a bunch or radio-colored deer that left Whitewater state park in Southeast Minnesota during the winter when feed there was poor. Some of them ended up in Wisconsin (yes they crossed the Mississippi) about 60 miles away. By the time things greened up in the spring, they were back.

That's the "for what it's worth" department for today.
 
Yes, my theory has been confirmed. Big deer DO relocate. I was driving out to my hunting spot to do some shedding this week, and I found the huge buck I have been trying to locate since bow season. He has relocated to a nearby neighbors garage. How disheartening to see the head of a buck you've been after lying on the floor of someone's garage. I guess it's back to the drawing board.
 
John Deere, I know you and the size of the bucks you have taken, so if you think it is huge it must be a real giant! Sorry to hear about your loss. I'm sure it won't be long until you have found a new big boy to go after! Good luck shedding.

Ogz
 
Try to find the Dec. '01 issue of North American Whitetail. Greg Miller writes about how sometimes bucks relocate for no apparent reason. He tells of four specific bucks that that wandered at least two miles. One of them wandered three miles east and two miles west of where they thought his home range was.
 
I don't know "How" far, but I can share a couple of case histories. This year a friend saw a Big 4 x 1, (broke off above brow tine,) at Point A on Saturday, I saw the same buck at Point B, 4 1/2 Miles away, on Sunday. A third hunter killed the same buck back at Point A on Tuesday. Although many of us were hunting the same general area, the first known sighting was the one mentioned at first. (Like where did he come from). Second case was about 10 years ago, I was hunting a controlled hunt on a waterfowl preserve, and the same non-typical was seen within 3 days, about 4 or 5 times over an 8 mile stretch. Yes I would say there is a good chance another of the big guys will visit you again in the future. Just don't pressure your deer to hard, and be ready.
 
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