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muzzle loader question

M

MO-Antlertips

Member
Hey folks, I've got a question about shooting a tighter group at 100 yards with an in-line smokepole. I'm shooting a TC stainless Black Diamond, .50 caliber, with a World Class 3x9 Tasco scope. 90 grains of loose Pyrodex and 240 grain sabot bullets. Not a top of the line set-up, but not an el-cheapo either.

Off of sandbags at 100 yards, I know this gun has the potential to shoot groups a lot tighter than what I'm getting, which is a three shot group about the size of a volleyball. I've kept the ramrod marked to make sure my bullet is seated the same each time. I've been drawn to hunt a management hunt at a refuge in Missouri the first weekend of January and don't want to miss (or cripple) a monster if I get a crack at one.

I keep hearing about guys who are shooting two inch groups with in-lines. Suggestions?

Thanks, MO
 
Try using different combinations of powder and bullet! Different brands and weights for bullets and different amounts and forms of powder! I have found that the pellets are more consistent.
 
Make sure you clean the barrel after 6-10 shots...the dirtier the barrel the more inconsistent the groups.

I'd always shot 110 grains of pyrodex....when I dropped it to 90 grains the groups got tighter. Experiment a little....
 
I would try a different bullet. Are you shooting perfect holes? or do you see a tear as if they are tumbling. I had a problem until I switched to Barnes bullets. My shots touch at 100 yards with my Knight and 100 grains of Pyrodex pellets.
 
Friend of mine shoots a Black Diamond he's using 150 grains of the pellets and 240 grain bullet. Just keep moving up by 10 grains on the powder until you find a tighter group.
 
I have found that 90 grains of Pyrodex and a 240 grain Hornady are the perfect combo for me, very consistant.....my dad uses the same.
Good luck and good hunting!
 
I sighted in a couple of Knights yesterday and had good luck with the pellets. I use Barnes 250 grain and got good groups. Zeroed one with three pellets for myself and my son and the other with two pellets for my wife. Had my cardboard target held up by leaning an old steel post against it. One bullet hit the post and broke the post in two!
 
hi,

try 2 pyrodex pellets and a barnes 250 grain bullet. clean every 5-6 rounds. i have had great luck with this combination, and my 12 year old son can shoot 3 inch groups all day long with this combination. good luck in missouri
 
MO-AT, my gun buddy (experts) say move your powder charge and bullet size around till your happy. But that can get expensive at times.

The main thing is you need to be happy with the way it shoots. So don't be afraid to experiment on trying to improve your groups.

I have a setup similar as you, a Knight MK-85 .50 cal, same scope and I shoot the Barnes 250 grain MZ with 100 grains of loose Pyrodex and I get good groups off the bench and I am not a good shot to begin with. I punch the bore after every shot when zeroing, don't know if that makes much diffrence or not.

Good Luck to you.
 
Mo, Here is another 2 Cents. My .50 CVA (EL Cheepo), Leupold Vari-x 2, 1 in 32 twist, will shoot 1 1/4 100yd groops with 130gr Pyrodex RS, Musket cap, Precision rifle QT 40 215gr polimer tip, solid lead Bullet/sabot, (www.PrecisionRifle.com) It took several combos to come up with this group. Like several mentioned, to get the best performance, move up as far as you can, in small incriments, with powder (Manufactures specks only). If you start to tumble bullets, find a longer bullet, this will help stabelize it when you get high powder charges. Also it will insure max penitration. I personally believe you should stay with solid lead bullets to get the most of the kenitic energy the bullet/powder combo will offer. Spit patch right after every shot on the bench, do not use a dry patch first after the shot, it could become wedged!, then dry patch twice, at least. This will keep your barrel as close to clean as possible to replicate the first shot. My gun starts going down hill after 7 or 8 shots, with above mentioned cleaning. Pop a cap before you start to insure the nipple and breach plug are moisture free. Sand bags are great to. Enjoy it, learn from it, and be safe!

CH
 
BW, I myself and several friends punch the bore after every fire for site in, I feel this is a must for zeroing in.
 
MO

When sighting in I always run a cotton patch down the barrel twice to ensure a clean bore. As everyone else suggests use different combos until you find what works. Personally I use 2 50 gr. pellats and a remington 240 grain sabot in my MK-85 Knight.
 
I purchased the T/C Black Diamond, stainless in a 50 calb earlier this year. I have a Simmons 2X7 scope mounted on it. I tried various loads, pellets and powder and had the best results using 2 50 grains pellets and a PowerBelt 295 grain bullet.

I found that using the hollow point or aerotip PowerBelts bullets had no change on the point of impact. Because of cost and bullet performance, I'd recommend using the hollow points to site in with and the aerotips to hunt with. I found that the aerotips will get me a pass through shot, where the hollow points tend to not exit. Just my experience with them. This year in Iowa unit 4, I took a 140 class 8 point at 90 yards with the Black Diamond. Had a pass through shot and the buck dropped where he stood. I don't profess to be an expert at this by any means, just my experiences with the Black Diamond. Also, there's some real good info in the Muzzleload forums of realtree.com. Hope this helps.
 
One more tip, I run several cleaning patches through after every shot.
 
I have found that tha sabot really can make a diff also I shoot knight sabots they have a little stiffer petal i think which stablizes the bullet just my thoughts
 
There was a really good article on this in G&A a couple of years ago. The main thrust of their argument was that muzzleloaders (at least those of 2 years ago) didn't produce enough energy to mushroom the bullet at 100yds and beyond. They recommended shooting 180gr flat-nosed.

Also, if you're shooting Pyrodex or black-powder, you should shoot a fouling shot to prep the bore. The first will have a different point of impact due to the clean barrel. After that, swab every 3 shots and things should remain pretty consistent.

If it's tumbling, you want a shorter bullet. 1:32 is enough to stabilize the 180's, but the 240's are longer and may require a faster twist with the charge you mentioned. Let us know how it turns out.

[This message has been edited by Gianni (edited 12-21-2001).]
 
Hey folks, thanks for the imput. I must confess I started with a clean gun and failed to clean the barrel after a few shots. Sounds like a lot of emphasis is placed on running a clean patch through the barrel, in an attempt to reduce some of the build-up of burned powder.

One more question for those who have scopes mounted on your in-lines. What do you use to clean the residual burned powder/pyrodex on the underside of your scope. I'm using Hoppe's powder solvent, then a light coat of oil. Anybody doing anything else? And what about those scope covers, anybody tried them and with what results? Thanks...MO
 
MO-

I had the same problem with getting residue on the bottom of my scope. I started using this universal muzzleloader cleaner. Sorry the name escapes me right now but it came in a white bottle with a yellow and black writing. The stuff was milky white and worked WONDERS on anything it touched. I'll look for it later this weekend and try and get you a name. Otherwise that solvent you'er using now is also good, I use that on the nipple and breech plug to take away the really crusted on stuff.

MW
 
MO,

That white milky cleaner "Muddy" is talking about is NUMBER 13 BORE CLEANER by Thompson Center. I have used it for 5 or 6 years works great on cleaning black powder, pyrodex and residue from your caps.
 
A number of solutions for the bottom of your scope....

1) Knight makes a velcro/vinyl cover for the scope that protects the area above the primer.

2) Put a piece of masking tape or camo tape over the area...then peel it off afterwards.

3) To make the clean up easier, use Kimber, Dave Talley, or Warne quick release scope rings and bases....simply slide the scope off, clean, and slide it back on....returns to zero every time.
 
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