Native Warm Season Grass

[Daver]

Good point...

Great stuff Paul!!

I recommend that before anyone buys NWSG's, see what you already have in the seed bank by doing a spring/fall burn or gly application and see what comes back. You may be suprised about what is already there.

Although I do not have any pictures to post right now, I have been very surprised to see the great diversity of plants that are already in the soil in seed form now on my place.

I have a 5 acre field that was brome CRP for approximately 15-16 years that I first "disturbed" about 4 years ago. I first mowed the brome about 4 years ago, mainly to kill off volunteer cedars and oaks and "others" to comply with the new CRP regulations. I subsequently killed the brome with Roundup and then had winter wheat planted for 2 consecutive years.

For a variety of reasons, I didn't get any wheat planted last summer, so it sat in mostly fallow condition all of last year. I then burned it all off earlier this year and what grew back on its' own looks very much like the pictures in this thread. Although I do not know all of my native plants, I have a great variety of plants present now, a good amount of insects hopping around, EXCELLENT bedding cover and so forth. I did mow a 2 acre section short about 3 weeks ago now and hit it with gly last week to prepare for a rye planting around Labor Day.

I found MANY deer beds in this "new" habitat when I was mowing and when I came back to spray two weeks after mowing the turkeys had obviously been having a field day looking for grasshoppers, etc, in the meantime, judging by all of the feathers in the field.

In short, I think Letemgrow has a good thought...kill the brome and let nature take its' course and whether you end up with a "pure" NWSG stand or not, I am pretty sure you will seriously upgrade your habitat by just getting the brome out of the way and letting things go on their own. I did not seed any NWSG, etc, in this area.

 

[dbltree]

...kill the brome and let nature take its' course and whether you end up with a "pure" NWSG stand

You will find Dave that if you continue to burn, especially late in the spring that the natives will continue to thicken and return.

You might consider tilling or discing a burn strip around and area to safely contain the fire and keep burning and possibly spraying a little roundup on early in the spring and you'll be surprised what you end up with!

Your also welcome to come over and strip some native seed to toss in there as well...can't get any less expensiove then that!

Another option for your place is to consider a strip around the exterior that you disk every year, burn late and then plant the strip to egyptian wheat for a screen....kill teo birds with one stone!:way:

 

[Daver]

Sounds good...

You will find Dave that if you continue to burn, especially late in the spring that the natives will continue to thicken and return.

You might consider tilling or discing a burn strip around and area to safely contain the fire and keep burning and possibly spraying a little roundup on early in the spring and you'll be surprised what you end up with!

Your also welcome to come over and strip some native seed to toss in there as well...can't get any less expensiove then that!

Another option for your place is to consider a strip around the exterior that you disk every year, burn late and then plant the strip to egyptian wheat for a screen....kill teo birds with one stone!:way:

I don't remember the date when I did burn this field this year it was about as late as I could get a burn going, I really had to baby it and manually spread it too. Things were greening up some and suppressing the fire spreading.

I might take you up on the offer for free seed! I also would like to invite you to stop by my place and take a look at my switchgrass stand and tell me if I should just restart or if I should look forward to next year.

 

[dbltree]

take a look at my switchgrass stand

Give me a shout next time your coming down and I'll run over Dave...

 

[dbltree]

So what happens if you give native grasses a shot of nitrogen?

Nannyslayer spread urea over some NWSG in some areas to compare and then sent me the following pictures. He used his trail camers so the pics are not the best and it would have been better if he had someone stand in the grass but still you can get the idea. He also mentioned the wind was blowing hard so the grasses are not standing straight up.

In the fist pic the NWSG on the left had little or no N applied while the natives on the right did

This spot had a little N applied and was about eye level

This area had no nitrogen applied at all and was about chest high

This spot had a heavy application of nitrogen and the grasses were easily 10 feet tall! :shock:

Now applying nitrogen is purely optional and this stand is a native mix so the Big Bluestem in the mix is "reaching for the sky" but any native including switchgrass will respond in the same way.

Don't apply N to new stands unless you have also applied a good residual herbicide because the N will also encourage weeds but established stands will respond with awesome growth.

In areas where you may need some additional screening, applying n can certainly increase growth! Remember to apply N in June after grasses have emerged and are growing well and just hours ahead of a minimum of a 1/2" rain or the N can be lost to denitrification...

Thanks a bunch for sending the pics Brian!

 

[letemgrow]

In short, I think Letemgrow has a good thought...kill the brome and let nature take its' course and whether you end up with a "pure" NWSG stand or not, I am pretty sure you will seriously upgrade your habitat by just getting the brome out of the way and letting things go on their own. I did not seed any NWSG, etc, in this area.

The best stand will not ever be pure NWSG, some forbes provide great browse, cover, bugging habitat and add diversity to the planting for lots of species and the deer benefit in the process.

A 10 acre stand of pure Switch for instance will be great bedding and cover, but not provide any food. A 10 acre stand of 50% switch and 50% forbes will have PLENTY of cover while the forbes add diversity and browse for deer. Pheasants, quail and turkey poults will have a lot more bugs and seeds come fall too!!

 

[dbltree]

Picture of Big Bluestem seed head on 8-21

Indiangrass seed head 8-21

Seed is not ready to harvest yet but it gives one an idea what to look for and I'll keep an eye them and ost pics when the seed is mature.

 

[LoessHillsArcher]

Seed is not ready to harvest yet but it gives one an idea what to look for and I'll keep an eye them and ost pics when the seed is mature.

Thanks Paul, I'm ready with the paper bags and all to start collecting!

 

[dbltree]

Some September 1st 09 pics of my own native grasses...

Big Bluestem and Indiangrass have been spreading into my pure stands of switchgrass, kind of interesting since common perception is that switch is dominate and will "crowd" out the other grasses...

In these pics you can see the Big Bluestem towering above the switchgrass

So you might ask..."why bother with switchgrass then" and the reason is because the tall big blue cannot hold up under heavy winter snow and ice and by late winter will usually be flat as a pancake.

Big Bluestem is a beautiful native grass and does co-exist well with switchgrass and I love to see it's red hues covering a field.

The seed heads are nearly ready to harvest

Often people say "switch is too thick and the other natives are not" but when you actually walk in a good stand, one is just as thick as the other.

Here is a Big Bluestem clump

The Indiangrass with it's feathery seedheads is also a beautiful native warm season grass!

Mine is generally somewhere between the BB and switchgrass in height and is very dominate, spreading into all of my switch fields.

Indiangrass is the first to fall when winter comes and mine is very aggressive, spreading like the Big Bluestem via wind blown seed.

Indiangrass clump

The switchgrass seed heads are finer and this grass does get very thick, however switchgrass, especially Cave In Rock, is capable of providing awesome all winter cover that is unbeatable.

At ground level the clumps are much the same as the other tall grasses and the "clumpy" nature of native grasses makes them far more attractive to wildlife then thick sod forming cool seasons. The clumps allow small wildlife and eve deer to move through the grasses while still having overhead cover.

All of these grasses were dormant seeded in the winter time and the fact that the tall natives have spread on their own is further evidence of how easily these grasses can be established via frost seeding.

The land they are growing on has not been tilled in 30+ years yet they have thrived by merely killing the cool seasons with glyphosate and frequent burning.

Great time of year to start thinking about collecting wild natives to frost seed later this winter....

 

[dbltree]

For those with an interest in collecting seed from native prairie remmenants I would urge you to explore the following site and subsequent links for some great information.

The Iowa Living Roadway Trust Fund has help pay for research and re-establishment of natives grasses and trees along our roadsides. Research is ongoing to determine how best to establish native grasses as closely as possible to a true native habitat.

Research shows that while drilling can be very effective in establishing native grasses, broadcasting seeds better re-creates a truly diverse seeding.

This is the link to the Living Roadway but then be sure to explore the Iowa Praire Network and other links for extremely helpful information in re-establishing true native prairie grass and wildflower habitat.

Iowa Living Roadway

Watch native plants for signs that some seed is dropping before stripping seedheads and then allow seed to air dry in paper sacks stored out of reach of rodents and birds...

 

[ajadams]

Do you think it would be at all helpful to burn first year nwsg's? A few of the areas I seeded this spring were off to a great start till the foxtail started in, then I kind of lost track of my grasses. I hope they are still there but there is alot of trash from all the mowed foxtail. I was thinking of burning it to get rid of some of the trash in the spring and set back any early weeds starting. Good plan or not? Thanks

 

[dbltree]

Do you think it would be at all helpful to burn first year nwsg's? A few of the areas I seeded this spring were off to a great start till the foxtail started in, then I kind of lost track of my grasses. I hope they are still there but there is alot of trash from all the mowed foxtail. I was thinking of burning it to get rid of some of the trash in the spring and set back any early weeds starting. Good plan or not? Thanks

They say not to burn first year natives but I don't know for a fact that it will cause harm? I never have burned until at least the second year but most advise not to burn for the first three years.

I wish I had a concrete answer to why not because I'm really not sure of what the detrimental effects would be and why?

I have had the same thing with lot's of foxtail trash but eventually the natives took off anyway. If you do decide to try burning, let us know if it works out alright?

 

[dbltree]

When you decide to put in a native warm season grass planting regardless if it is a single species or mixed, it's important to plan ahead for burning in the future.

Fire lanes or burn stops should be in your plan which may include a legume like clover or perhaps a tilled strip that you plant to sorghum or egyptian wheat.

I always till around my fields because I have had fire get away from me by following the dead thatch in the fire lanes...dirt is a sure fire stopper as long as winds are calm.

Why burn?

Without burning the straw builds up and can almost smother the plants themselves as you can see here with this Indiangrass.

New plants have grown around the perimeter of these dead clumps but nothing in the center where the original plants were.

The straw builds up across the fields and the native grasses literally suffucate themselves.

If burning is out of the question then mowing or shredding can help but burning is without question the ideal and your native grass stands will flourish after burns...:way:

 

[letemgrow]

Burning also releases nutrients back to the soil....it would be my first choice for NWSG stands. Hopefully I can get one of my big blue stands lit up this spring to set back the fescue and promote more big blue.

 

[tomt]

Prep pictures

Here's some

pictures of land I have been preping for next spring seeding.

 

[tomt]

More pics,,,,,,,,,,

And a picture of what it looked like,

As you can see, I missed some spots with my spraying. Re- did those two days ago. Trying to follow Paul's advise to the "T".
The fields have actually been sprayed about four times this year already. Trying to do my best at killing all those cool season grasses.

Couple of questions for you Dbltree,
Since this ground is going in CREP and they dictate the CP-25 mix basically, I want to add CIR in a few areas to "bolster" my mix and get a little more of what I want. Would 2lbs. per acre in these areas be too little or too much???? I would frost seed that this Feb/March.
The NRCS wants me to seed around corn planting time next spring so I can spray at first green-up. Couldn't I frost seed and still spray at first green-up before anything germinates????
I'm planting about 12 acres total. A couple of other areas/fields I'll be planting I did manage to get soybeans planted in. These fields were also sprayed last week with Gly just to be safe.
Thanks, and any advise or tips are appreciated !!!!
Tom

 

[letemgrow]

TOMT,

If you are going to put that area into NWSG, you can also broadcast the seed this winter and let mother nature do the work for you...it may be an option you want to check out.

 

[tomt]

That's what I would like to do. But the NRCS guy seems to want me to plant more like May or June. When you say winter,
do you mean a Feb/March frost seeding?
Snow is usually here on the ground till the end of March
or beginning of April.

 

[letemgrow]

You can do it in March or before...here is what my stand looked like that was scatter seeded in November on a sod killed piece...it is time to go back in this fall after the big blue goes dormant and roundup the fescue. I only hit it once that fall, but should have done it the spring before and the fall to get a good kill from the get go.

 

[dbltree]

Couldn't I frost seed and still spray at first green-up before anything germinates????

Absoutely! The NRCS guy is just telling you what he has been told but that doesn't mean that it's "correct" or better...just the methods they are given as standard practice.

You have prepared well...just frost seed, add some CIR if you want and spray any early green up no later then mid april and don't tell them otherwise.

Just do it, take the bills in, in May and everyone will be happy!