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Need advice

Fishbonker

Fishbonker

Life Member
As most of you know I am pretty green at bow hunting so I need you folks to tell me if I'm doing things right.

I've been out six times in three different stands and seen deer four times from two of the stands. Here is whats happening: The deer get as close as the botom of my tree and all of a sudden they look right at me. Only on one occasion did they spook and run. The evening the three does spooked the small basket 6 pointer that was following them hung around for what seemed like forever but it was at least 10 minutes. Usually the spot me and just wonder off. All the deer have been well within 20 yards but I decided not to shoot any does until after the rut and the other buck that was within 10 yards was a small 4 pointer.

Here is what I need to know: What am I doing to make them look right at me? I assume they aren't winding me so Is it motion, sound or both? I'm siting in ladder stands without any conceling branches around. One is 18ft and the other is 15ft. The day they spooked I was in the 15fter with a very stong wind. The stand may have creeked in the wind to spook them of I may have moved. The does were within 10 yards. The buck stayed behind and watched the does run off. He was looking and looking at me. No snorts no stamping just lots of sniffing untill he just wondered off. He was as close as 15 yards.

This is a good problem to have as far as I'm concerned. But I would like to not be looked at. Oh yeah, its been differnt groups of deer each time, I think.

Another thing I wonder about, the only part of me that isn't covered is the bridge of my nose and a little around each eye. If I use face paint will they smell it? Or do I need to be concerned about that small amount of exposed skin?

Thanks for your help.

The 'Bonker
 
I'm inclined to think that you're making a small amount of noise that is unnoticable to you, but the deer notices due to its superior hearing. The noise draws its attention to you, and it looks at you to try to determine what you are and whether you pose a threat. If after that they determined you were a human and posed a threat they'd exit immediately with flags waiving. Knowing they're looking at you you're sitting quietly, not moving and not making noise, so no further alarm. They're going to stare at you and continue to check you out for some time, however, to make sure you are not a threat for certain.

Just my opinion, but don't hear that well so have gotten a Game Ear, was surprised to hear how much noise just the smallest move created, from fabric rubbing lightly against the tree, etc. Not so loud as to be a major alarm bell, but certainly enough to draw attention from the sharp ears of a deer.

Deer will check out any and all stands that have caused them to go into alert mode in the future if they've decided it's a threat, since they need to be alert to threats at all times to survive. Beyond that, I don't think they're capable of the abstract thought it takes to "reason" that a man-made object is clearly a threat, only have the senses to notice something when it's new and different and react to it because it MIGHT be a threat, be careful until it's determined not to be. Just my opinion, haven't been able to converse with too many deer lately, and the Federal funds for a controlled study haven't come through yet.
 
Goonieye: Both of the stands are very close to runs. About ten feet or so directly in front of the stands. Both runs come out of very heavy brush about 20 yards on both sides of the stands.

Wisco Kid: The 18 footer is a Bear River that has been in the same spot since last year. The 15 footer is a Rivers Edge that I put up last Friday and hunted for the first time Monday. I painted the 15 footer about ten days before I put it up to help air it out. This is the stand where the does spooked but the buck hung around. The Rivers Edge is square tubing that seems to creek alot. The tubing could fit a little tighter. The instructions said to use grease to cut down on the noise but I thought the smell would spook the deer. The Bear River fit pretty tight but it too creeks.

John V: I bought a concelment system made of plastic over wire with leaves and branches. I can't remember the brand name. I forgot to take it to my stand. I'm gonna try it and see if it helps.

GDCooper: I, like the deer, am incapable of abstract thought or reason. I've never had an original thought in my life. Thats why I'm so greatful for this site. Like the great philosipher Popeye said "I yam what I yam and thats all that I yam"

Thanks to all for the help.

The 'Bonker
 
fishbonker, I wanted to share an experiance I had last year, with ya. I took a week vacation to go hunt in south west iowa, on saturday I put my stand up and did some slight trimming of shooting lanes. Out in front of my stand was a little 4" dia. tree that had a limb that was out of reach for me from the ground. I put a screw in step in so i could reach the limb to trim. when I was done I went back home and ate lunch and then went back and climed in the stand. That evening I saw about 25 deer and 4 of them were shooter bucks.

Now you are probally thinking what does this story have to do with me. Well here goes, the very first doe that came by, was walking about 10 yards away from that sapling that I had trimmed. When she got directly down wind from the sapling, she stopped in her tracks and stared right at that little tree. After a couple of seconds she walked right up to the little tree and stuck her nose to the spot where I had stuck the step in. As soon as she got to it she jumped back and stood at attention.

I think that maybe she smelled the scent from my hands that I left on that tree. I will never forget that lesson. Cause now I do not go into the timber without gloves on. Sorry for the rambling, but thought that might help you out. Good luck in your new found hobby.
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fishbonker, I wanted to share an experiance I had last year, with ya. I took a week vacation to go hunt in south west iowa, on saturday I put my stand up and did some slight trimming of shooting lanes. Out in front of my stand was a little 4" dia. tree that had a limb that was out of reach for me from the ground. I put a screw in step in so i could reach the limb to trim. when I was done I went back home and ate lunch and then went back and climed in the stand. That evening I saw about 25 deer and 4 of them were shooter bucks.

Now you are probally thinking what does this story have to do with me. Well here goes, the very first doe that came by, was walking about 10 yards away from that sapling that I had trimmed. When she got directly down wind from the sapling, she stopped in her tracks and stared right at that little tree. After a couple of seconds she walked right up to the little tree and stuck her nose to the spot where I had stuck the step in. As soon as she got to it she jumped back and stood at attention.

I think that maybe she smelled the scent from my hands that I left on that tree. I will never forget that lesson. Cause now I do not go into the timber without gloves on. Sorry for the rambling, but thought that might help you out. Good luck in your new found hobby.
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Bonker, If I remember correctly, on one of the posts about scent control you said you wash your clothes in a non alergenic Tide detergent. I wonder if they are picking up some type of scent in that? I've always used the H.S. Scent detergent myself so I don't have any personal experience with the n/a Tide, just wondering. When I use my ladder stands I always use plastic wire ties to attach tree branches around the legs to hide it and it seems to help. I prefer to use fresh cut cedar if it's around somewhere, it's a great natural cover scent. I use some branches near the top as well to break up my outline. If a deer happens to look up, the limbs will give me good cover. It seems to work pretty good. Once I got carried away and brushed my ladder in so well that my brother and his friend couldn't find it. I was having some trouble with a neighboring land owner who felt he had "squatters rights" on every piece of land around him and thought he had taken my stand. So without seeing for myself, I called him up and accussed him of stealing it. Of course I felt like an idiot when I found it, and then had to call him back and appologize. There is no good way to prepare Crow before you eat it!
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that is why I don't like ladder stands, just like drawing a line for the deer to follow to you. If you are having all of the deer walk that close to your tree you might be hunting to close to the run? good luck
 
Fish..

What kind of ladder stands? When did you put them up?

If you are hunting in the evening, even if the wind is in your favor, thermals of cooling air can push your scent to the ground where it spreads out. Might be just enough to give them a whiff that something isn't right.

You just need to figure it out. Just keep working the bugs out and improving. If you can do that, you'll be successful.
 
You need some cover to break your outline. Also, once the deer have busted you seen you in the stand they will likely remember and look for you each time they return to the area. If this is the case, you need to move your stand a bit.
 
FISHBONKER, jsut an assumption here, but are you stairing at the deer as they come in and are mueling aruond the stand. Deer have an uncanny nack for sencing their beeing watched. Try not looking at them directly untill you need too. Peek at them out of the side of your eye.

Also, Tide, NOT GOOD. I have washed my close in baking soda and then hang them out for a couple days, if it rains on them that is even better. Always keep them in a Tote with baking soda, and when I get back home, they go back on the clothes line to air out again. I have a Scent Blocker suit too, but I have jsut as good of luck with my preditor camo as that Scent Blocker. The only time I have seen it out preform is when I am on the ground. Don't get me wrong, I am sure it works better than my preditor camo but I don't really see it.

Your ladder stands, how well are they fastened to the tree? I kno both your stands, I have two of them. I will use 3 ratchet staps on them. You will need to use some rop as an extender from the lower part of the ladder to get back to the ratchet unless you have some longer ratchets. But lock that baby down tight. I have also attached a rubber pad to the seat and the foot stand. quieter when getting into position.

Stand location, all depends on the set up, but I like positioning my stand at 15 yards form the trials and off to the side, so the deer do not approach directly to me. Also try and stay away from the crest section of the hill, where it rolls over from the steep section to the flat on top. When a deer comes up an incline it is already looking up in the air when approaching that crest. Alot easier for them to pick out movement and objects when skylined. Expecially when the leaves have dropped. I personally lover double truncked trees and muple based trees. lots of cover.

Good luck, oh Rackaddict has a good point with the rubber plants. Another thing i have dont is mount some netting infront of the stand up to about the waiste hight.
 
Thanks for the advice.

I use HS liquid laundry detergent on my camo. I wear a sent blocker suit underneath. The Camo always gets hung up in a tree in the back yard. When going to the stands I pack it in a backpack that has been in a tupperware container with leaves and fresh earth waffers. I wear a scent bloker head cover that could probably be washed or "reactivated" more oftern then I do now, but I have taken to wearing a surgical mask under the head cover. While in the tree I usually use a fresh earth wafer or white oak wafer for cover scent. My gloves are the cheap jersy kind that I have sprayed with scent away. My boots are rubber and sprayed also then I stomp on a couple of apples to grind the pulp into the tread and use some of the bigger pieces to rub on all of the exposed boot.

I have the stands very tight to the trees. I use ratchet straps on top and on the support bars. I made an extra support bar for the 18 footer.

I love the idea of fastening brush to the ladder with wire ties. I'll do that.

I had heard about not looking directly at them. I will work on this more, but its hard not to. Specially when looking for head gear.

Thanks again for all the advice. I'll go out this afternoon.

The 'Bonker
 
Thanks for the advice.

I use HS liquid laundry detergent on my camo. I wear a sent blocker suit underneath. The Camo always gets hung up in a tree in the back yard. When going to the stands I pack it in a backpack that has been in a tupperware container with leaves and fresh earth waffers. I wear a scent bloker head cover that could probably be washed or "reactivated" more oftern then I do now, but I have taken to wearing a surgical mask under the head cover. While in the tree I usually use a fresh earth wafer or white oak wafer for cover scent. My gloves are the cheap jersy kind that I have sprayed with scent away. My boots are rubber and sprayed also then I stomp on a couple of apples to grind the pulp into the tread and use some of the bigger pieces to rub on all of the exposed boot.

I have the stands very tight to the trees. I use ratchet straps on top and on the support bars. I made an extra support bar for the 18 footer.

I love the idea of fastening brush to the ladder with wire ties. I'll do that.

I had heard about not looking directly at them. I will work on this more, but its hard not to. Specially when looking for head gear.

Thanks again for all the advice. I'll go out this afternoon.

The 'Bonker
 
Couple things: I agree with Ole Tom that deer and many other animals, predators and prey, have a highly developed sense of when they are being watched, or when something's just not right. Have you ever just felt like you were being watched? Some people call it the sixth sense, and I think there is a lot we don't understand about it, but I really believe deer have it. I've seen them do things that defied description.

Second, I do not believe you can cover your scent. Matter of fact I'll go so far as to say there is no such thing as a workable cover scent. I do think that some of the scent blocking products are effective to a degree, but it should never be an excuse to ignore the wind. Here's a good example of how good a deer's nose is, I've posted this here before, but it's worth repeating. Early November a doe walked down the trail under my stand and went out into the picked field out in front of me. Some time later, a buck, all rutted up, came trotting along the edge of the field and hit the trail where she had passed a while before. He literally skidded to a stop. He put his nose to the ground and took two or three steps towards me on the doe's trail, then spun around and took off running after that doe. By smelling the scent she had left for six feet, he knew which direction the scent was older and went the right direction. SIX FEET! Imagine the power of that nose! How are you going to fool that nose?
 
I have used ladder stands for several years now. I have been busted in them once. I would make sure your background behind the stand keeps you from being silhoutted. I have had 10-15 deer this year come within 10-15 yds. of my stand. The one time I got busted (last year) was when they came from a low area and funnelled up to where my stand was located.....I think they just naturally are looking up when coming up to an area.
 
Bonker: I had the same problem when I first started bow hunting. Alot of good advice has been given here. The noise, smell, and movement factors are all good possibilities of being spotted. In my opinion these can all be minimized by one thing. Move your stand back from the trails. Ten feet is awful close! Your talking a touch over three yards from what sound like some good trails. I'm sure you have dialed your broadheads in for at least a twenty yard shot. So if you back off to about 15 yards you still have some room to play with. And you have moved your scent, noise, and motion almost 5 times farther away from those wiley deer.
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Just my thoughts once and awhile I have some.
 
Bonker,

I agree with others who have commented that you should consider moving your stand farther away from the trail. Besides scent, noise, and movement giving you away at this close range, I would be very very concerned about your shot angle which is going to best be described as the ole "bowling ball" shot. The vital target you need to hit at this steep angle is very small compared to the target which you can hit and be in the vital area at a distance of say 15 yards. There's no room for error in shot placement when shooting steep angles.
 
I could be wrong, but the real problem sounds like you are right on the trail! Tell me if I'm wrong, but you really should be 15-30 yards downwind from a main trail or intersection. I started moving my stands off trails after my first few years and spooked a lot less deer!

Good luck!
 
Bonker, My mistake....again! I went back to the post I referred to about scent elimination and re-read what you posted. I was thinking that you had made a comment about using non-alergenic national brand detergent to wash your hunting clothes but you were referring to the residue that is left in the washer by detergents. Sorry man! Here I go again having to apologize for shooting my mouth off before I did any investigating. If anyone has a good Crow recipe I could sure use one!
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To quite the creeks in ladder stands I wrap where the ladders connect with black electrical tape so there is no metal to metal contact.
 
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