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News from the DNR meeting today on allowing tracking dogs.

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wildlands

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I thought I would pass along some good news from todays meeting. Brian just posted this over on the UBT web site and I thought I would pass the news along. Will not be this year but looks like next year the hunters of Iowa will have another tool in their hunting arsenal for the recovery of wounded game.
Ken

"Pat and myself did a presentation to the Iowa Natural Resource Commission today to support the leashed dog tracking petition. The DNR Official representing the department countered that the department was against moving forward with this and gave some reasons they had never mentioned to me before. I am happy to report the seven person board of the Natural Resource Commission unanimously voted to move forward with the rulemaking process! At this point the DNR will move forward to write the rule and allow any public comment ect.. before this goes in the books. This was a great win for us and the hunters of Iowa. I want to thank Pat who's professional help was invaluable."
Brian
 
Good!!! Its about time.... but why put it off for a year??? why not this year?
 
They have to go through the rewiew and comment state I guess to be legal and that will take to long to get it for this year. It would be nice though if they moved on this quickly.
 
I hope during the rule making process that plenty of protections for the hunter/consumer can be made. The rule can be as strict as dogs can be used only on the hunters own property and by the hunter only. Meaning only on his land with only his dogs, which is pretty narrow, or as loose as "let’s put an ad in the paper, put a leash on fluffy and see what we can find and charge to do it". I'm confident that in reality the rules will be somewhere in between.

What I am afraid of is that the State, at the behest of trackers for profit, would decree that all wounded deer are to be tracked. A rule such as this would take away my judgment, as a hunter, whether I made a lethal shot or a brisket shot and potentially make me a law breaker if I indeed did not hire a tracker.

Over all I think allowing dogs for tracking wounded deer is a good thing for Iowa, but I want the consumers to be protected. I want trackers, both handler and dog, to be certified as trained by an accredited training program and licensed by a governing body. If I make the call I want to be sure the person answering the phone is a legitimate business man and not some con artist shmuck out to make a fast “buck” with the family pet.

As I remember the petition, there were a few phrases about calling the DNR before they started tracking which is a must, but they must also carry their photo ID license to track and their certificate of training. The dog needs to have an identifier of some kind like an implanted chip or tattoo for identification and verification of training.

I’m not trying to cast aspersions on trackers or their dogs, they provide a valuable service, but a service that must be properly regulated. I just want the consumers who use the services of a tracker, and I may be one of them, to have some consumer protection.

Back to my first point though, this is not to say that if you are on your own land with your own dog that you would have to be accredited, but as soon as you go off your property you would need all the training and licensing. Also if you were a paid guide on your own land or received payment for allowing others to hunt your land, then you would need accreditation and licensing, not only for the tracking but the guiding and leasing of the land as well.

The 'Bonker
 
I have to wonder what the cost would be to call out a handler and his dog to find a deer.With all the accreditation and training "Bonker is talking about it might be a lot of money.I thought the bill/law would allow a hunter to take his lab out to see if it could help find a lost deer.Or call up a buddy and say...."hey...get your dog and come-on over and see if you can help me find my deer"
 
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Here in NY we have a non profit organization called Deer Search. Their dogs are licensed and trained to follow blood or wounded deer. They do not charge for this service but it is kind of understood that you should make a donation. They have been around since the 1980's, I used them once and the dog followed a trail not visible to me for about 400 yards and found the deer. I gave the handler $40.00 and he seemed happy with that. (around 2001). I have not heard of any bad reports on this group.
 
This was posted and removed while I was writing my reply. Good thing I copy and pasted it so it wouldn’t get lost.

“Keep it as simple as possible. How in the world can the cash strapped state of Iowa and DNR train, accredit and regulate dog tracking. It can't. The DNR is having trouble enforcing the basic and more important game laws like poaching.”

This is what I was writing in a reply to the above cut and paste:

Ah my good friend (name removed because he took down his post), who said the DNR would train them? An accredited group would certify the dogs and handlers and the DNR would license them. Sounds like the DNR would profit from the venture to me. Not to mention the accrediting body. More money for the DNR from wounded game tracking licenses equals less reliance on non resident deer hunting income.

One of my several points is keep it as black and white as you can while ensuring a quality product for the consumer. Easy to enforce. If you are out there with a dog “tracking deer” you must have a license.

As far as volunteer organization, they are no longer volunteers when they are expecting to get a donation for services performed.
 
There is no reason to require a dog to get accredited unless they just want to. Word of mouth will keep the bad ones from working. Keeping the dog on leash is the only way to keep the conflicts down. Not every person is going to go out and get a tracking dog to just track for themselves. The best tracking dogs after the basics are put on them in training take lots of track under a lot of different situations, that is how they learn. Even in states that have allowed tracking dog for many years it is not like there is a tracking dog on every corner. Even here in Ga were we have been allowed to use tracking dogs forever there are still areas that the closest tracking dog is well over an hr away.

"I want trackers, both handler and dog, to be certified as trained by an accredited training program and licensed by a governing body."

One way this could occur would be to pattern it after New York were the handler has to pass a written test and the handler and dog apprentice under a skilled handler and dog. The problem would be getting those first ones so that they could train the others. Also organizing how these people are going to meet and work together and who the certifing organizatioin is going to be.

I know this is Ga but let me tell you a little about our set up for tracking dogs. There is a list that a state hunting magazine runs twice a year just before hunting season then another online. This list is broken down into the counties so that you can find the tracking dog nearest you. The list averages about 70-75 or so trackers a year. The guys at the top that are in prime areas with good dogs take anywere between 60-100 calls a year. The bad ones only take a call or two and quickly get off the list as they no longer get calls because word of mouth has shut them down. Average areas the good ones get 20-30 calls a year. Everyone is worried about money. Again this is up to each person. Some want to try and get rich, know what, they might take a few calls but it is that person that charges a resonable rate is the one most are going to call. You have a guy who drives 30 minutes to and hr. or more, then spends 2-3 hrs with you tracking what is it worth. Not to mention if it is like me when I get calls at 11:00 at night to come out and help track. Those next days at work are ruff.
Here is a link to the online list of trackers, some have listed what they charge.
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=348708

Illinois legalized tracking dogs a few years ago and the only requirment/qualification was if it was going to track on state grounds. Then it is required to pass a tracking test administered by an organization, usually one of the breed clubs or something like that.

Here is the link to state regulations off the UBT web site. Click on any of the green states to see how they handle tracking dogs and what they allow while tracking. http://www.unitedbloodtrackers.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7&Itemid=10

Spend the time doing a little research to see how things have been handled in other places before you point blank say no or demand something. You might just find one of the other states has already tackeled your concern or thought. Then voice any of those concerns or thing you would like to see included to the DNR. Make this a good rule change that works for the hunters of Iowa. Make it reasonable so that people will be incouraged to get involved.

Ken
 
Ken, I appreciate what you are saying, but “word of mouth” has no protection whatsoever for the consumer. How many people buy the newest widget, or take their car to a repair shop only because they had an eye catching ad in the yellow pages? It is up to us to do our due diligence before we consume. Some times that due diligence is preformed for us by an accrediting or approving body such as Good Housekeeping or even Underwriters Laboratory. I want to be assured that when Joe Hunter kills the buck of his dreams that he gets the best professional tracking team possible not Joe Bob from down the road who has a dog that once found a dead rabbit. So when he finds himself in need of tracking assistance he can call a certified and licensed tracker and be confident that he is getting the best help possible for a fair price.

What constitutes a fair price in one state may be totally out of line in another. Different economies, different culture, whatever. I would like to see a poll on what Iowans would be willing to pay for a professional tracker to aid them in the recovery of their wounded deer. If it were up to me I’d be willing to pay 20 bucks an hour, two hour minimum plus 75 cents a mile. This is pretty close to what Ken has on his link. Most are flat fee plus mileage and some add a fee if they find the deer. Highest I noticed was $100.00 if the deer was found. I also noticed some listed they were members of a trackers association which immediately narrows down who I would call.
 
Since when are we guaranteed anything as a consumer? You take your chances unfortunately with anyone you hire and this is no different. I would think if Joe Bob down the road doesn't do a good job he won't be in business very long. Keep this simple. The last thing I want is some type of "governing body" for tracking dogs. Who is going to accredit, train and regulate "tracking dogs"? The state? I doubt it they can't handle what they have on their plate now. Keep it simple and things will go fine.
 
Is the Consumer Protection Agency a figment of my imagination? USDA Choice meats are guaranteed to meet certain standards. The medications you take are guaranteed to meet the same standards whether generic or name brand. There are standards for everything that meets a certain level of guarantee. Like it or get your money back comes to mind.

So how would you like to be the first person Joe Bob screws? Let somebody else be the first? No, accredit them, certify them and license them. Don’t let a desperate hunter trying to find his dead deer fall victim to somebody with a dog, a leash and a flashlight.

The ‘Bonker
 
There are many so called regulating bodies that guarantee nothing. They are put together to make some politician or joe public feel better, but in the end it's not worth the paper it's written on. Contractors for example have to be licensed in most states. 99.9% of them do receive their license regardless of how talented they are. In the end it is word of mouth and the best tracking dogs, in this instance, get the business and the pretenders go under.
 
Jeez and I thought I was a cynic. So you hire a licensed electrician, you get shocked by the light switch they installed what is your recourse? You call the licensing body and file a complaint. You hire a non licensed electrician, you get shocked by the light switch they installed, who you gonna call? Your best friend and complain? Might make you feel better and word of mouth might get around but it won’t get around to everybody. Chances are you aren’t the first person that electrician tried to electrocute. Why didn’t you hear by word of mouth how bad an electrician he was before you had a shocking experience?

Like I said before, people have to get hosed before a reputation is made. You wanna be the first to try a more or less random phone number? Give me something to measure a business by and I’ll go with certified and licensed every time.

The ‘Bonker
 
Give me a break. Who is your archery shop accredited and regulated by? How about your bait shop, afterall one is entitled to the freshest bait out there. God forbid someone not catch that record bass. Come on this is a tool to enhance a "hobby". We're not talking a utility or a life neccesity. Like you said above if a "licensed" whatever makes you feel better great, but it doesn't mean squat your getting hosed if you don't do your homework. Let's try to keep the red tape out of something for a change.
 
Whoooa partner ya got me now. My bow shop is not accredited, probably because there isn’t an accrediting body for bow shops. He is, however, a member of ATA. So by being a member of a national organization like the ATA he has at least made the effort to be more than a guy selling crap outta the back of his minivan. I would try a member of an organization before picking a random name outta the phone book. If you wanna check on your shop just google ATA and follow some pages.

Look around, whitetail hunting is no longer a hobby, it has become big business. Part of doing my homework is to check and see who is accredited and licensed. Where you see red tape I see black and white.

The ‘Bonker
 
Easy solution! Pick up your bow more than once a month, go out to your yard, stand at various distances, and release some arrows. If you try this, you probably will not ever require the services of a man and his dog. Bonker, your "regulate everything and charge a fee for it" attitude is part of the reason this state and country are in the position we are in. I have one the most well trained waterfowl dogs that I have ever been around, and its because I spent hundreds of hours training her. I can take her out into the field and hunt her anytime I want without having to have her chipped or registered, or accredited with any government organization. My point is, that I could do the same thing with a "trailing" dog and I should have the right to take her out and enjoy the fruits of our labor without having to take a course or have my dog accredited by some organization that probably doesnt know how to potty train a kid let alone train a dog to hunt. "Consumer Protection" is great in most cases, but it doesnt really apply to tracking deer with a dog. If you hire me to come and find your deer, its because you couldnt find it in the first place, so if I dont produce a found deer your not out anything more than when i started, so I guess if your going to call and file a complaint for not finding your deer, you're probably not the kind of person I would want to come and help anyway (or do electrical work for). If I dont find your deer its your fault plain and simple! You made a bad shot, so dont place the blame on me and cry for the "CPA". :thrwrck:
 
Oh, I see where this is going. Hunting is not big business for 99% of the hunters on this site or anywhere for that matter. It's recreation for most. But your undergarments seem to be in a wad for the guy who has identified a market(tracking dogs) within the industry and will make some money. You must be a non-entrepreneur.
 
Dedgeez, the problem comes when you charge a fee for a service. The person collecting a fee for service should be accredited and licensed. If a hunter hires a tracker to find their deer after the hunter does their due diligence (research his credentials and his history) and the tracker is unable to locate the hunter’s deer there could be a number of factors probably all the hunters fault. If the hunter just picks a random tracker off a list on the internet and he cannot find the hunter’s deer, well who knows whose fault it is. Dude, I’m about as responsible for the condition of the country as McDonalds is responsible for making kids fat.

Jdubs, it is for that 1%er that is trying to make money off of my hobby that I want accountability, accreditation and licensing for. I am for free and open markets but I want companies and people to be accountable for what the services and products they sell.

The 'Bonker
 
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