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Possible problem with Whitetail Institute Product

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N9BOW

New Member
I just took a good look at the ingredients sticker on the back of the bags of Whitetail Institutes Product that I had ordered. I decided to take a closer look after reading a reply to my post (tnx DBL) to look at the % of Berseem Clover and I noticed something that has really peeved me.

Just thought I would share. I have 4 20lb bags of Alfarack Plus and one 25 lb bag of Imperial Whitetail Clover. As I was looking at the sticker I noticed that there were actually 2 stickers - One on top of the other. I could see through the top sticker just enough to read the text on the sticker below and noticed that the Bags (all 5 of them) were expired last december. The innoculation on the top sticker was good through Dec 2007 aand the Bottom was Dec 2006. I will be calling them tomorrow and express my displeasure
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. Anyone else get any Imperial Products and see this?

N9BOW
 
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The innoculation on the top sticker was good through Dec 2007 aand the Bottom was Dec 2006

[/ QUOTE ]

That's pretty shady business and I would give them a call
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You can buy (and should anyway) fresh inoculant from Welters...it's only $4 however the seed itself it's hard to say how old it actually is.

You can do a ragdoll test by putting some between some wet papertowel and see what % germinates.

I'm glad you read the labels...compare the varieties and where they came from. (growers in California most likely)

The Berseem is one thing that galls me because no one know it can't be frost seeded nor are they aware it will only last one season... and all that at a very hefty price...
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I just got off the phone with them and the explanation they gave me was that every year they have seed from a previous years lot. They retest the innoculant for that lot and if it passes they recertify/resticker it. He said test it and if I do not get 90% germination to call back and he will send some new innoculant. or I could go buy it.

I also asked about the claim that their description of the product is 12 months of forage. When i asked how that is possible with over 1/3 of the mix being Berseem he said well that is just a fast green up addition to the mix????? (that does not sound like an addition....but the primary ingredient if you look at the percentages) When I asked about the 32.46% ratio of the mix his answer was well you won't notice that it gone next year
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I will go ahead and test the innoculant on each bag to make sure that I get 90%. I may just go ahead and get some new innoculant when I plant it just to be sure the investment is not wasted.

It looks like I'll just have to wait and see how the plot comes up and does throughout the year and especially see what happens with the clover the next year to see if I "wont notice" 1/3 of my purchase dying off
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I would imagine the other varieies that are in the mix will possibly reseed and grow from the lateral shoots and probably fill in where the Berseem dies off.

I am kind of curious what others have experienced after the first year of planting Imperial Whitetail Clover or for that matter AlfaRack plus.

N9BOW
 
I can see your concern.

I have had GREAT success with their clover, and customer service.

I just planted 6 acres worth, on 4 acres last Saturday. The first bag I noticed the majority of the seeds were the same size. The second bag however had a lot of smaller seeds? I don’t know if this will affect my results or not, time will tell. Overall I have had great results with their product. The clover really comes in thick the second year, it was knee deep by mid spring last year!
 
Thanks for the info.
Thats good to hear and I expect I should have the same results as long as I get good germination when planting this April. Their customer service has been ok, I have only ordered the product and inquired (very politely) about the double labeling and what that means to me and the results I could expect. We'll see if the germination test produces acceptible results.

IMHO excellent customer service would have been..... "hey well just send you some innoculant just to make sure seeing how we sent you last years lot of seed."

Hopefully this will all have been a non issue when everything greens up.

Truth in Labeling should apply to advertising as well.....

When they claimed to have a "perennial" clover mix - and come to find out that one third is annuals and double the next highest varietys %(Advantage Ladino) one would think they would make note of that in their disclosure of the product. You cant find any mention of berseem or for that matter the word annual anywhere in their product info for Imperial Whitetail Clover. At least I could not find it.

Go Figure, leaving out a negative attribute when pursuading customers to buy your product being used as a marketing ploy (insert sarcasm here)

N9BOW
 
Pharmer,

Thanks for the question.

I am new to planting foodplots and prairie mixes. Heck the only thing I do know is vinyards, blackberry and persimmon. Based on your question am I to assume that the innoculation does not help the germination? If that is the case then the guy I talked with at the Whitetail Institute was incorrectly making the connection.

If you could share....? I would like to understand what innoculation does for the seed.

EDITED - OK I found some good info on innoculation and now I understand its purpose. Still curious why he would say what he did.
Site with innoculation info
N9BOW
 
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What governs germination?

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It sounds like you have found the answers to your questions.
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Inoculant has nothing whatsoever to do with germination
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it's what helps the legumes fix nitrogen (that's the short version
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)

Germination will decrease with each year of age for most plant seeds however some seed such as switchgrass and wildflower the opposite may be true.

I have planted WI Imperial Clover several times...it's good clover...just not worth the extremely high price compared to similer clovers from Welters.

Hopefully yours will do fine and in the meantime your learning a lot!!
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The other short answer is No, you won't notice the missing berseem the second year, the ladino fills in.

think of the berseem as no different than an oat nurse crop in alfalfa establishment.
 
Re: Possible problem with Whitetail Institute Prod

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think of the berseem as no different than an oat nurse crop

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I'll sell you all the oats you want for 1/2 price of what they are changing for the berseem.
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Re: Possible problem with Whitetail Institute Prod

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I'll sell you all the oats you want for 1/2 price of what they are changing for the berseem.

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I hear that!

I think I'd still prefer the berseem but not necessarily at their price either.

I've had excellent luck with WI products and if all you have is 1/2 acre or less convienence might out weigh price. Who knows maybe there's something to their bred for deer preference program.
 
Re: Possible problem with Whitetail Institute Prod

Altough I deal directly with Tecomate products, I can tell you it's not uncommon to add a new label. The person you spoke to is right that, most companies will relabel seed. The important thing is that the new label should be updated with the expected degradation over the year. In most cases it's about 10% and the price you pay for the seed should also reflect that. I'm not sure what he was thinking as it pertains to innoculation and germination, a previous post was right, they have nothing to do with one another. Hope this helps.
 
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