Roundup Ready Corn & Soybean Food Plot

[dbltree]

DT, is the reason for only one centralized plot so that it is easier to hunt? If I had strip plots in 3 different areas as opposed to 1 would the only negative be diluted hunting? Or is there other negatives? On the todem pole of a deer herd, the lower deer get pushed around quite a bit... what are your thoughts on social stress or pressure when 50 deer try to pile into a single 5 acre plot? I certainly agree with a centralized food plot... I am just wondering why only one if there is another area that would work or if your property does not allow for a central location?

Always use one feeding area per 80-120 acres! Deer will adjust by feeding at different times, I have counted nearly 60 deer in 3 acres and they do just fine. That said, every property is unique so in some cases irregular shaped property may require another feeding area but generally deer will quickly figure out where the food is and adapt to that....:way:

 

[dbltree]

December 23rd, 2011

Several people have wondered how the Real World Soybeans have held up with regard to shattering so i slipped down and checked on them...they are shattering but not as badly as most of the beans. Thus far I have not see ANY soybeans that were totally shatter resistant which is one inherent downfall of soybeans period and something each of you will want to keep in mind when deciding what crops to utilize.

These are shattered RW soybeans but since there are several varieties in Don's mix, it appears some are holding up better then others.

Some pods are still sold and holding up

In all of these pics you can see the winter rye overseeded into the beans

because rye can germinate down to 36 degrees and grow at 34 degrees, some people have noticed that rye is still germinating and growing that due to severe drought had not previously germinated. It may be too late to provide fall forage but will still provide early spring forage and become a great cover crop.

I traveled to Illinois yesterday to do a consultation and as we walked through the landowners soybeans (which were shattering as well) he mentioned that someone told him that deer wouldn't eat the beans in the pods and that they had to fall on the ground first...amazing sometimes how little people really understand about whitetails and apparently have never watched them stripping the beans from the pods as fast as they can!

Deer are opportunistic, meaning they will not pass up any opportunity to fill their bellies and they certainly don't mind eating beans on the ground. The problem however is that when we get rains the soybeans swell, turn mushy and start to rot on the ground or snows cover them and the melting snow causes the same problem, so beans that stay in the pods are far better with less waste.

In every plot I have multiple food sources, there is never any such thing as a field of beans or a field of clover for instance but rather each plot contains the right crop combinations to provide year around food sources. This also gives us a unique opportunity (with the use of trail cams) to observes usage 24/7 on many plots on many farms and the results are always the same. Whitetails feed on ALL the food sources and surprisingly, in every case spend as much or more time eating white clover, brassicas and the winter rye combination...as they do soybeans.

I sometimes go thru 30,000 to 40,000 trail cam pics when I check landowners cams which gives me a unique opportunity to really study whitetails day and night and easily dispel myth's and misconceptions. In contrast landowners who rely solely on observation by sitting on a food source a few days out of the year usually are clueless to what is really going on.

In every plot, deer eat EVERYTHING I plant...not deer in just one plot on just one farm, but EVERY farm....hundreds and hundreds of whitetails ALL readily feeding on the crops I plant for them. Sometimes...they may be in the beans....

but more often then not the cams reveal they are feeding on the winter rye/oats/peas/radish combination and Alice white clover planted beside it.

You are bombarded with fancy ads that promise huge bucks and some kind of magic attraction if you purchase their seeds and further confused by people who rely on observation a few days out of the year, but the truth friends is often far different. never pin your hopes on any one crop but rather attract and HOLD whitetails with a combination of year around food sources (where possible) in ONE single destination feeding area.

Choose the combinations that will work well for you and your budget and give deer time to adapt to that feeding area. The following are some combination suggestions that are 100% successful on every farm I work with.

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring.

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

or

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover.

Soybeans overseeded with winter rye, forage radish and red clover in 45% of plot

Plant early maturing soybeans, then as leaves start to yellow overseed the above mentioned crops at 100-150#'s of rye, 5#'s of radish and 15#'s of Mammoth red clover

Rotate the brassicas and soybeans each year

In each case the combination of crops will keep deer coming to that ONE place day after day, spring, summer, fall and winter and trail cams will reveal the truth that some would prefer you didn't see.....

 

[nailbender76]

corn with the beans

Kinda late in finding this thread, but the idea had been on my mind for a few years. I finnaly was able to have the land and opportunity this year.
The idea i had was to simply provide cover for the deer while they were in the bean field, mainly because the area can be easily seen from an old mud road. I was not so worried about getting a good stand of corn.
I used a no till 7.5" spacing and just mixed the corn seed in with beans while in the hopper. Was trying for 15 - 20% corn seed, but I think it was too much.
Got the plot in late, but still grew well. Picture is July 31. Corn put on few or no ears. The ones that did make ears were eaten early. I'm happy with it though, the deer are always out there and nobody can see them or shoot at them. Beans have great pods all the way around and should get me well past shed time.
I will do the same thing again next year, but im going to plant a straight up corn field as well. I don't think corn likes the competition.

 

[dbltree]

Thanks for sharing the pics...the corn needs a lot of nitrogen so consider using 200-300#'s of urea at planting if you want it to thrive. Urea needs to be tilled in however so you'll want to disc it in before planting.

 

[dbltree]

January 5th, 2012

A good friend of mine planted soybean food plots on his large farm along side the soybeans planted in the farmed areas of the same farm and commented to me the other day that he may just go ahead and combine them because there are so many beans left. The farm was previously pasture so I suspect in time deer will adapt to his feeding areas and eventually they may clean up the beans by now but time will tell.

In contrast most of the beans I have planted in feeding areas were deer are adapted to feeding there are GONE! It took only 2-3 weeks after removing the electric fences for deer to wipe out the beans just as they annihilate standing corn making neither good options for my area. The white clover/brassica/rye combination however keeps them fed year around and they don't end up with an empty feeding area like they do with corn or beans.

One thing I would like to make clear here is that adding soybeans did not bring in any more deer then when we had only the clover/brassica/rye combination so when you are mulling over your habitat plans...keep that in mind. The most common misconception is that some crop...ANY crop has the power to draw deer for miles and nothing could be farther from the truth. Cover is the key to holding deer and once you have thick premium cover...they will eat anything and everything you plant for them. If your not seeing deer....don't blame it on the food source....but take a long hard look at the quality of your cover!

In this field we have strips of soybeans and strips of brassicas with white clover in the corners and the landowner observed deer primarily feeding in the "green stuff"...clover and brassicas. Still....the principle of strip plots can be seen in this picture and you can incorporate any combination of crops into one field in this manner. Soybeans and brassicas can be a good rotation if you overseed rye into the standing soybeans.

As mentioned the problem with soybeans is that in most cases there are gone so quickly they are not that effective in meeting our goals of providing year around food sources.

Stripped clean!

The saving grace here is the brassicas...the big fat turnips!

They focused on the Groundhog forage radish all late summer and early fall, then the rape plants and then the turnip tops and now...the huge Purple Top turnip roots!

If all we had was soybeans....the deer would head for greener pastures and unfortunately many if not most landowners make that mistake, planting only a fall "hunting" food supply.

Whitetails will readily eat soybeans...that much is true

and for some landowners soybeans may be a useful tool

but for many of us soybeans and corn require fencing to protect them and that doesn't make economical sense when other crops are just as effective.

If you wish to include soybeans in your habitat program, be certain to use them in conjunction with other crops to provide year around food sources...not just on your farm but all in one central feeding area per 80-120 acres.

While not seen in these photos, we have white clover and brassicas in this field as well and the deer shown travel thru the soybeans to the other two crops

You have many options to keep feed in front of your whitetails year around and the following are just a few that work well for me

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring.

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year



or


Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover.

Soybeans overseeded with winter rye, forage radish and red clover in 45% of plot

Plant early maturing soybeans, then as leaves start to yellow overseed the above mentioned crops at 100-150#'s of rye, 5#'s of radish and 15#'s of Mammoth red clover

Rotate the brassicas and soybeans each year

 

[turkeyriver]

Just a note for guys who want to grow some corn. As doubletree has said, nitrogen is the key to a good crop. There are farmers spreading urea on soy stubble and then no-tilling corn. The key to this practice is spreading the urea in April while it is still cool and then getting a rain to incorporate it. The urea will stay fairly stable until temps start to rise. I have been spraying liquid nitrogen for years using the same principle, do it early while it's still cool out. Incorporation thru tillage is the surest way to save the N, but not always necessary. As with most things in life, timing is everything. If you happen to have dry fertilizer boxes on your corn planter like I do, you can use those. I turned my corn pop. down to 20,000 and my fertilizer rate to the max at 240 lbs. per acre. Then I double planted the corn at angles. So I ended up with 480lbs. of fertilizer banded with the corn. I spiked my normal corn starter fertilizer with urea so that 480 lbs. consisted of 175lbs. of 0-0-60, 165lbs. of 11-52-0 and 140lbs. of urea. The co-op rep was a little concerned I might burn the corn with such a high rate of N in starter that close to the row, but I had no problems and the corn was fantastic. The beauty of it was with one trip to the plot with just my planter, fertilizer was applied and underground and the corn was planted so that deer couldn't easily walk down the row and nip the silks.

 

[jerred44]

In a typical bag of corn and beans, how many acres will one bag of each plant?

 

[dbltree]

In a typical bag of corn and beans, how many acres will one bag of each plant?

80,000 seed count in a bag of seed corn which at 28,000 to 32,000 seeds per acre will plant roughly 2 1/2 acres

Soybeans are different sizes so they come bagged in "seeds per pound" anywhere from 2200 to 3200 seeds per pound. Planting rates can vary from 120,000 to 220,000 seeds per acre so a bag will do roughly an acre or less.

 

[dbltree]

I get emails from people who are willing to share success and failure and the end results from the habitat work they have done. When they are willing to allow me to share what they have learned in my teaching threads then that helps everyone, including me. There is no one way to create habitat just as there are many ways of successfully harvesting a mature buck, but...there are things and methods that have a higher degree of successful outcomes. Each landowner can look at the various outcomes shared and then make the choices they feel our best for them.

The following is a letter and pictures from a friend in Pennsylvania sharing his results both with fencing, forage soybeans and the use of beans in general.

Paul:


You may not remember me, but last May / June I corresponded with you a few times via email about questions I had on electric fences and soybeans. At that time I was making my second attempt at planting Eagle soybeans. A previous attempt in 2010 was unfenced that resulted in plants that somewhat held their own in regeneration, but never really developed many pods due to the overbrowsing. Last year’s project was to fence a two acre plot with fencing and try Eagle beans again. I would like to say it worked great and all of your recommendations on number of wires, charger type, etc… were spot on. It led to plants over 5’ high (see attached photo) and with some good pod development.

What also continued in 2011 was my reading the QDMA and Outreach Outdoors forums. It is in those forums where I can learn from others. It is also where you wrote a thread about fencing forage beans that really hit home for me. Let me explain. As I watched my beans grow behind my protected fence last summer, I could not have been happier. I was having success. However as late August rolled around I started looking at the beans and noticed some plants had pods and some did not. Obviously from the different types of beans in the mixture (Northern Manager’s Mix) caused them to develop at different times. I started to think this may be contradictory to what I planned. I wanted pods for November, but because of the various types, I was not going to get them on all the plants and if I did, they may not have beans inside of them. It was about that time I also read your thread about fencing forage beans. It was like a bulb went off in my head. Yeah I have this great plot of beans, but I defeated the purpose of planting a forage bean. They never could eat the leaves until I took the fence down in late August and by that time, their food choices were changing.

I then made another observation that I believe you also pointed out in one of your writings. Based on my examination of my plot’s pod/bean production, about 75% of the plants had pods with beans inside. The others I believe were the wrong type for our Pennsylvania growing season. Watching them dry I thought that it will still be okay because our rifle season would be starting the first of December and since I passed on all bucks seen with a bow, this is going to be a great food source / attractant for my hunting area. What I learned was yes it was a good food source, but within three weeks they basically cleaned up the plot to bare stems. I think what also helped was that it was a full moon during that time frame and this seemed to make them use the plot heavily at night and eliminated my prized beans quickly. I attached a couple pictures that shows a portion of that plot on Nov. 14th and then a few weeks later. Zoom in and you'll see pods and then on the Dec. picture, nothing.

Nov. 24th

Dec 16th....stripped clean!

I am writing you this to just say that experience is the best teacher and your experience in what works in Iowa is the same as in Pennsylvania. You taught me how to make a great plot but I am now question my plan. When I reviewed the amount of money and time I put into those soybeans for the small window of use, it was not worth it. Next year I think am going back to a brassica mixture because of the volume of food per acre, it has always been a safe / cheap plot and even with snow cover, provides food well into January. I may also compliment those brassica plantings with plots of the cereal mix that you list on Outreach forums. If I did plant beans again in one of my plots, I think I would just buy regular ag. beans (cheaper), fence them and come to terms that they are going to only provide about a 3-4 week window of food in November. Without areas to plant soybean plots large enough not to be fenced and survive heavy browsing, do you think I'm on the right track with just forgetting the soybeans and go with the brassica / cereal grain plan.

Again thanks for all your help and keep writing those threads on various forums and the occasional article for the QDMA.

In response to the last question asked...

do you think I'm on the right track with just forgetting the soybeans and go with the brassica / cereal grain plan.

I can only say that everyone of the landowners I work for have elected to drop soybeans and corn and go with the clover/brassica/rye mix plantings listed below now have proven they are even more effective then either beans or corn and together feed deer year around....making them predictable and easy to pattern...

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot...plant with the rye mix below and soil test for needed P&K/lime requirements. Lacking a soil test I use 400#'s of 6-28-28 and 500#'s of pel lime in my area.

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea, 400#'s of 6-28-28 (or comparable such as 400#'s triple 19 ) Add lime per soil test. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring and no fertilizer is necessary at that time.

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas only 100-200#'s of urea may be needed but first time plantings may need to be fertilized and limed as the noted for the brassicas.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

 

[dbltree]

Shattering?

There is it seems...much ado about the subject of shattering in soybeans leading many to believe that you must buy this soybean or that to avoid the problem. What most people don't realize, is that most commonly grown ag soybeans are very if not completely shatter resistant! No farmer wants to risk having his crop end up on the ground because of shattering so seed companies endeavor to breed high yielding ag beans that are going to hold beans in the pods not only through a normal harvest season but in fact all the way to spring!

I have had several people tell me they were going to combine their bean plots because deer didn't eat all of them and that would be impossible it they had shattered.

On a recent consult the landowner had various soybean food plots on his large farm, the ones next to cover were stripped bare but other fields in open areas far from good bedding cover were largely intact...uneaten and no shattering what so ever.

The cost of shipping soybean seed is very high and there is no reason to when good quality, reasonably priced high yielding ag beans are available at your local co-op anywhere ag crops are grown. It's nearly time to re-plant and these beans are still in the pod and on the stalk

Nothing special or expensive...just common reasonably priced and readily available soybean seed

Winter rye and soybeans

Rye overseeded into standing ag soybeans late last August has been keeping deer fed and coming to the same feeding area despite the fact the beans have been gone for months

Grazing is evident

and the rye serves as a cover crop and soil builder to boot...

We have found that soybeans are not nearly as attractive as once thought and the landowner where the beans are still standing was amazed to see that deer mowed his Groundhog forage radish plants to the ground despite being planted right in the middle of soybean plots. While soybeans are no longer a part of our habitat program, you may wish to include them in yours in which case...check with your local ag seed supplier for early maturing soybeans that will allow you to overseed winter rye, forage radish and even red clover as they begin to yellow in late August....

 

[risto2351]

Shattering?

While soybeans are no longer a part of our habitat program,

Paul,

Does this mean that you are not planting any beans on your property this year?

 

[dbltree]

Paul,

Does this mean that you are not planting any beans on your property this year?

yes...that is correct Tony

 

[dbltree]

Winter rye in soybeans

Winter rye, red clover and forage radish can all be overseeded into standing soybeans in late August, providing they are early maturing ag soybeans and that makes a great combination and allows one to avoid having a "dirt plot" all winter and spring.

Perfect if you are going to rotate to brassicas or other late summer crops

Winter rye is an outstanding cover crop and helps protect and build up soils while feeding whitetails at the same time!

Adding red clover and forage radish makes a good thing even better with the red clover providing early spring forage and then fixing nitrogen for the next crop. Overseed 100-150#'s of rye, 10-15#'s of red clover and 5-10#'s of forage radish just as leaves start to yellow in late August and maximize the use of your soybeans....

here is yet another example of common ag soybeans planted in central Illinois that were uneaten by deer and are still holding well.

I was able to examine these beans closely while on a habitat consult the other day and they are intact and could easily be combined.

On other areas of the farm (next to heavy cover) the beans were wiped out early on but these being farther away from premium cover remain for the most part untouched and none have shattered.

Good quality ag soybeans are bred not to shatter so don't be misled by comments to the contrary and avoid paying huge shipping costs to ship in seed that you can easily purchase at your local co-op.

On the subject of soybeans...to plant or not to plant? Soybeans have no great magical power to draw deer for miles and in many cases can be easily wiped out, often times before they are inches out of the ground. I can produce more/higher yields of forage for a longer period of time with a combination of other crops and avoid all the problems that accompany soybeans.

All of that said, you may wish to include soybeans in your feeding areas and combined with clovers, brassicas and winter rye (planted separately within the same plot) they can add diversity and when mixed with milo can be a great addition for pheasants as well. The point is that each of you should know that you don't have to grow soybeans to hold deer...it's merely an option that is no better then less expensive and easier to manage crops....

 

[dbltree]

May 2nd, 2012

Winter rye in soybeans

There are few things more effective yet less expensive then overseeding winter rye into standing soybeans as they start to yellow. The rye will germinate easily right on the soil surface once given sufficient moisture...which came late for us in SE Iowa last fall, yet eventually because rye will germinate down to 36 degrees and grow down to 34 degrees...the rye did get moisture and did indeed grow!

You can barely see the soybean stalks for the rye here in early May this spring.

The rye provided winter and spring grazing to keep deer fed long after the soybeans were gone and provided excellent soil cover as well.

Not a weed to be found thanks to the thick cover and the allelopathic chemicals in the rye roots

I overseeded red clover along with the rye...now a silent partner in improving the soil and attractive to deer now that the rye has reached the unpalatable stage.

The biomass both above and below ground is phenomenal and the nutrient scavenging abilities of the rye insure that they will not be washed downstream and will be available for the next crop once the rye is killed.

Winter rye is easy to kill via tillage or spraying with clethodim or glyphosate and is easy to no-till corn or soybeans into. The residue can be disced down or tilled under if no-tilling is not an option but no matter how you slice it...the rye is a huge win win when used a a part of your habitat tool chest!

For best results plant early maturing ag soybeans that will mature in late August and overseed 100-150#'s of winter rye per acre into the standing beans (or corn) as the leaves start to yellow. The combination will provide both grain and green forage that will keep deer coming to your feeding area all fall, winter and spring. Rotate to corn, milo or brassicas so for best results divide your field and plant multiple crop types within that field.... :way:

 

[rosh]

what ways have you tried to overseed that works the best. with a 100-150 lbs of seed a hand seeded would be alot of work. thanks

 

[dbltree]

what ways have you tried to overseed that works the best. with a 100-150 lbs of seed a hand seeded would be alot of work. thanks

Let's just say I am not afraid of hard work

I always use a bag seeder, it's always 100 degrees and I sweat buckets

In soybeans I have used a 3 pt spreader on my tractor on large fields and did it that way, the spreader will cover a wide swath and you don't knock down many beans so you might try that.

the other method is aerial seeding which is pretty cheap if there are other farmers in the area needing it done as well...check with your local ag service about that option....:way:

 

[MO-APE]

I got a bag of free R/R soybeans last year that I wasn't able to plant. I have an acre burned down with gly and disced up. The soil has been limed and I will fertilize when I plant (also FYI this is going in next to 2.5 acres of Alice white clover and another acre of rye grain and oats that will be brassicas).

I have two questions
1) how can I tell if the beans are still good? They may have even been holdovers from 2010 when given to me. I assume the wet napkin/window sill trick from grade school but looking for other suggestions.

2) I will do something else with this plot when the beans are toast (ie rye). Is there anything besides corn I can plant with the beans for insurance? Something that wouldn't necessarily hold back the beans?

TIA

 

[dbltree]

I have two questions

1) how can I tell if the beans are still good? They may have even been holdovers from 2010 when given to me. I assume the wet napkin/window sill trick from grade school but looking for other suggestions.

2) I will do something else with this plot when the beans are toast (ie rye). Is there anything besides corn I can plant with the beans for insurance? Something that wouldn't necessarily hold back the beans?

Seeds wrapped damp paper towel is still best bet for checking germ rate. 2 years they are usually 80% or so but the third year they can drop significantly so you are wise to check them.

Pretty hard to control weeds unless you use glyphosate on your RR beans and that makes it nearly impossible to add anything else until later in the summer/fall.

You can mix with milo but then you'll need safened milo seed and use Dual II Magnum herbicide which is pretty pricey for a couple acres.

 

[Notch]

Just a hint. If your looking for cheap seed beans, check your local coop right now. They sometimes have some bags left over from test plots that they can't sell, so they give away a couple bags here and there. The retailer I a currently working at has a whole pallet of plot seed still sitting around.

 

[jesserichard]

I have a question on the winter rye. Can you plant it after the bean fields have been hit with round up? And will the rye grow as the beans get taller?? Thanks