I was watching a bow hunting show today and they were bow hunting for management deer. As I understand it they were culling bucks with undesirable antlers. What i didn't understand was why the deer they were culling had to be mature. I thought the idea was to get rid of junk racks and get those genetics out of the gene pool.
brand32-09
Member
And by the time that they reach maturity they will have passed on their genetics like any other buck. Which is why culling makes zero logical sense.
letemgrow
PMA Member
You cannot cull wild deer and change the genetics within the herd, so a mature cull buck in the wild is taken (and called a cull because antlers are not desirable) to make room for other bucks and hopefully they will have better genetics.
Any mature buck is a trophy either way, no matter their antler size.
Any mature buck is a trophy either way, no matter their antler size.
That's what I thought too. :way:
6x6
PMA Member
Exactly, not so much to change the genetics in a herd long term, which would be impossible, but to make room for the best bucks to stick around and mature, since you cant stockpile adult bucks. We just try to get rid of the below average older bucks, to keep the others with more potential around hopefully.
loneranger
Well-Known Member
Again,emphasis on antlers, on shows. To me ,,also,,age of a buck means more than antler configuration.
Right on. For guys with say 80 acres, you may have 1, maybe 2 bucks that are mature that like to call your farm home. If it's a 130" 6.5 year old that's maxed out & running other bucks off - both a great time to shoot him, still a great accomplishment and makes room for some other buck that have great potential. Ditto to above - no one is talking about making big impact on genetic pool (even though if done to significant degree across large areas could make some impact).
HorseDoctor
PMA Member
On the TV shows most of the "culling" is done on high fence or at least big high management places. They need to kill off a certain number of bucks a year and can't charge full price for medium size bucks, so sell "cull" hunts cheaper. That saves the "trophy" bucks for those with big bucks ($$$). They really aren't altering herd genetics to any significant extent.
JRudd
Aim small miss small.
By taking out a mature/dominant buck with a less than desirable rack, your allowing other bucks to do breeding, or inviting a new commer to take over and spread his genetics. No, your not eliminating those genes. It's not an immediate result, as nothing really is. But that mature 130 could easily run off a younger 160. Let those bucks breed with less comp and in the following 4 years and you will have deer with different genetics running the area and possibly desireable headgear.
So the idea of a "management buck" is BS then?
AZHunter
Iowa Boy At Heart
I would bet money you were watching a show set in Texas. They live and breathe management hunts and cull bucks down there. As a former geneticist, I've tried to talk genetics with my brother-in-law and others on his lease in South Texas. I love him to death, but you might as well be talking to a brick wall. SO much more goes into antler size than a buck's DNA. As others have said, does carry half of the genes that get passed on and I was recently made aware of a study that suggests does are as much responsible for a buck's antler size as the buck she breeds with. And then there are all of the environmental conditions (food, water, stress, drought, disease, etc.) that come into play with the overall health of the buck.
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
Again, has to do with capacity of your property, only so many bucks
You would win that bet sir! :drink2:
So, my next question then is how exactly does one manage a herd? You have no way of knowing what genes are retained in any given deer. The best you can do is improve the environment and nutrition. I would think it matters not what deer you take when.
If you choose to not 'waste tags' by letting those monarch bucks live on your property and you choose not to shoot them because their antlers are too small. Don't complain that there are no 'shooters' in your hunting area. You would have bigger antlered bucks if you would shoot those old bucks with inferior antlers and allow other bucks with more desirable antlers to move in. I'm not talking about several of these mature 'cull' bucks a year. You might have 1 or 2 in a 3 or 4 year time period. But to let them remain in your area and not shoot them is really not maximizing the potential of your land.
JNRBRONC
Well-Known Member
Sounds kind of weird, but if you don't like the dominant buck in your area, kill him so something else moves in.
NWBuck
PMA Member
In TV shows, anytime I hear "management buck" or "cull deer", I figure it's an excuse for them to shoot something so they can make a show. I've got no beef with them shooting these deer, because if the spirit moves me, I might do the same thing. But don't pass it off as some sort of management sacrifice for the good of the farm. Many of these "management bucks" appear to be pretty normal looking 2nd or 3rd rack 8 pointers to me...but what do I know :thrwrck:
NWBuck
NWBuck
NWBuck,
If I didnt run several trail cameras a year and spend countless hours looking for sheds I would say the same thing. Some of these inferior racked bucks would be impossible to age if it wasnt for using information from previous years to monitor the deer in my area. We had a 10 pointer that was finally killed by the neighbor a few years ago, for 3 years he basically never grew. I dont know how old he was but I do know that the first year I recognized him and thought he was a 2 year old, he was not. He never scored more than 120". We've had several 3 year olds put on as much as 160" worth of antler. We killed a 6 year old 10pt last year off of our farm that scored 123". Other than growing mass and a little bigger brow tines he never grew from year to year. He was a buck the last 2 years of his life that you could count on seeing him in a food plot 2 out of every 5 sits. He was always around. He didnt seem super aggressive towards other bucks but I'm sure he chased off some other younger bucks. He was finally killed the opening weekend of shotgun season at 11:30am in a food plot.
If I didnt run several trail cameras a year and spend countless hours looking for sheds I would say the same thing. Some of these inferior racked bucks would be impossible to age if it wasnt for using information from previous years to monitor the deer in my area. We had a 10 pointer that was finally killed by the neighbor a few years ago, for 3 years he basically never grew. I dont know how old he was but I do know that the first year I recognized him and thought he was a 2 year old, he was not. He never scored more than 120". We've had several 3 year olds put on as much as 160" worth of antler. We killed a 6 year old 10pt last year off of our farm that scored 123". Other than growing mass and a little bigger brow tines he never grew from year to year. He was a buck the last 2 years of his life that you could count on seeing him in a food plot 2 out of every 5 sits. He was always around. He didnt seem super aggressive towards other bucks but I'm sure he chased off some other younger bucks. He was finally killed the opening weekend of shotgun season at 11:30am in a food plot.