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The Kid and a buck

Freedom is freedom...let them run.

I like hamburgers too much not to kill an animal that's not fearing for its life.

What do non-hunters but not quite PETA types think when 30 hunters surround a small woodlot with shotguns? Just some thoughts.
 
Do you really think I have a different mindset on hunting. I'm 52 years old and have hunted wild iowa deer since I was 11. I own my own 70 acres that I've managed for the last 20 years. I grew up hunting in a time when we needed the food just to have meat on the table, and in my dad's own words...."here's 2 shells, don't miss"

What you describe here... I love that! I would consider any deer you shoot on your managed, fence-less 70 acres a bigger trophy than anything shot inside a fence. :way:

So how are your thoughts different than mine on hunting? One last question, does the size of the enclosure determine if it's fair chase in your opinion?

The size of the enclosure affects how the animals move through it. That part is obvious. A 4000 acre enclosure might not affect the animals as much, I'll give you that, but the not so obvious affects are what bother me more.

If there is a fence, people have a direct influence as to what is inside it. They can truck animals in and drop them off. Happens all the time, especially in whitetail enclosures. You can herd them. You can tame them. You can dart them and drug them. You can add animals as you see fit, and you will always know they are there. They can't leave, no matter how badly they may want to. That is what bothers me the most.

I really enjoy looking at pictures of deer in preserves. They are neat animals, no doubt. I'd just prefer not to see people killing them for sport.

Would it matter if it was 4000 acres? Would you still think it was a cage with 6 1/4 square miles for the deer to roam, or do you not think a buck could get away from you in that big of area? If you were invited on a Texas Hill Country exotic hunt on that big of an area fenced, would you consider it?

The problem gang is you are only considering a fence and no other factor in determining what is fair and what is not or what my definition is compared to yours. Why is it bad to hunt in one of these preserves, just because you wouldn't?

I have no doubt that an individual buck might be able to evade me inside a 4000 acre enclosure. BUT, I know it'd be easy as pie to shoot any one of the other 500 boone and crocket bucks packed in there. (ok, maybe not that many, but the point is, they can put as many in there as they want until people begin to have success)

I just want to reiterate that I'm not pegging you as a moral-less dirtbag by any stretch of the imagination. At the end of the day, they are all animals and we kill them. Congrats again to your wife on her buck :way:
 
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The first deer in Iowa that tested positive for cwd was in a 14 acre enclosure for 2 hrs before it was shot! I bet that guy didnt have to hunt very hard!
 
Bruce, thanks for sharing and opening some debate, thought, etc. For most it's hard to imagine what it is like not ever doing it and what that preserve is like. The like of some TV folk has definitely not helped portray what this could or could not be like so most will look at this in a less than ethical or moral light based on preconceptions from the negative exposure including our recent Iowa CWD 14 acre "hunt" As with anything there will be good and bad examples.

Personally I like big deer that's no secret and would consider it a treat just to sit in there to see the animals. Though I will probably never pay to do it I wouldn't say no if it was offered as I would like to see what kind of a challenge it would be and just to enjoy seeing the animals and spending time there. I would look at a harvest there differently than a free range deer but wouldn't be opposed to the experience.

I have hunted high fence pigs and know how tough it can be and can honestly say it has been a hunt - in fact 6 years worth of going at least 2-3 and even up to 4 times a year I have yet killed a giant Boar although I have seen 6-7 of what I call true giants during that time it just hasn't worked out for me. Every time I have fun because they are good friends that run the place, nice accommodations, and I have always had good friends or family with me to share the experience. It's a nice change of pace to relax and enjoy now and then. I can honestly say I could shoot a free range mature whitetail easier than I could shoot what I consider a trophy boar where I have hunted them. But then again we all have a nemesis and those big boars are mine.

I used to enjoy watching Jack Brittingham because of his passion for hunting huge whitetails fenced or not and seeing the huge whitetails fenced or not that he hunted. I remember him telling how many days he put into hunting some of those huge high fence deer he has shot and how little he seen of them while hunting them and it blew me away like 60-80 days plus. I consider that hunting but also look at the harvest differently than a free range animal. What I like about Jack he didn't sugar coat or try to hide it it he told it like it was and he loved hunting whitetails.

That being said tell us what it is like from your experience. What kind of a challenge you would rate it. I'm sure like any animal some are different than others honestly how wild does it feel? Is it a guaranteed hunt? Are you picking one animal or just a size class? Are they shot on feeders etc? How many bucks and how many does are in that 400 acres?

By the way I understand the lost feeling I was in a Cedar Rapids park shed hunting 10 years ago or so and it started to blizzard though I was at the most a 1/2 mile from a road I thought I would never find may way out.
 
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From Midwest Whitetails: Bill Winke

CWD is a huge red flag in the deer hunting world
. Despite several findings in nearby Wisconsin and Illinois in recent years, the black cloud has not drifted over Iowa, until now. The first case of CWD in Iowa was discovered in July 2012 from a buck killed in Bloomfield, Iowa on Pine Ridge Hunting Lodge. The deer was killed in December of 2011. Make no mistake; this is a big deal!
Biologists believe that chronic wasting disease is caused by infectious, self-propagating proteins called prions. These prions are normal cell proteins found in the brain whose shape has been altered in a way that they can cause degeneration of brain function and eventually death. CWD is very hard to eliminate once it gets started because it is not fully known how to completely destroy these prions. A similar disease that you may have heard of among cattle is called Mad Cow Disease. Although there is still much to be learned about CWD, no cases of CWD transmission to humans have been discovered.
Since the initial finding in Davis County, six more confirmed cases have been reported. All of the cases have been traced back to deer breeding facilities, primarily one in Cerro Gordo County also owned by Tom Brakke, the owner of the affected shooting preserve in Davis County.
So far, there are no confirmed cases of CWD in wild Iowa deer, but there is definitely concern that it will spread. It is believed that CWD spreads through direct contact, specifically, nose to nose contact. To help contain the disease, any deer remaining on Brakke’s preserve after December 25, 2012 will be killed and tested for CWD.


Brakke, and other deer farmers. are in shock and angered by how this case is being handled. They feel they are not being compensated for the eradication of their herd and are worried about how they will stay in business. Agreed, it is not Tom’s fault that his deer have CWD. He didn’t want that. But it is a known and well-documented risk of captive deer herds. It should come as no great surprise that it eventually happened. That is why every deer killed within Brakke’s enclosure has been tested. He has made a good faith effort to keep his herd clean, but it did happen nonetheless. Where does that leave us?

Iowa's deer hunters, the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) and the governor's office are worried about CWD spreading to the wild deer herd and potentially to livestock, though that connection has never been scientifically made – it is still a knee jerk reaction in a state with so many cattle operations.
What effects would an outbreak of CWD have on hunting in Iowa? You can look to IL and WI for some ideas – and it is not good. Eradication within focused areas has been the typical response to positive CWD test findings. And, without a doubt, rules regarding commercial deer operations are likely to be reviewed at the upcoming session of the Iowa legislature. The question will be raised about whether they should remain legal. A lot of money will be spent on both sides. It is an emotional issue that will spark intense debate.
Some people believe enclosed deer farms don't provide a "real hunt," are more like to spread disease of all kinds, and should be abolished. Others believe they do provide a “real hunt” and should remain because they help support families. Say whatever you like, I have hunted on very large high fenced preserves, (one was 1,800 acres, one 1,500 acres and one was 3,500 acres) and the experience is not the same as hunting wild free ranging deer. If someone tells you otherwise, they are selling something. I contend it would be even less sporting in smaller enclosures.
I am not saying you can't find a sporting opportunity in some enclosures, and that bucks grown naturally on-site with native genetics can’t be savvy and tough to hunt and offer a true challenge, but it is not the same as hunting free-ranging deer – plain and simple. When the bucks can’t disperse naturally, they are easier to find and thus easier to hunt. No question about it. So what place do enclosures have in Iowa’s hunting culture? I don’t know. I won’t be that judge because I haven’t all sides of the argument.

One way officials test for CWD is my pulling lymph nodes for tissue
samples. Currently, there is no way to test for the disease on live deer.

Deer hunting is not only a big business bringing in millions of dollars to the Iowa economy, but as we all know, it is much more important than that. It is a quality pastime and the passion of a large number of Iowans. The impact CWD could potentially have on both wild and captive herds if it begins to spread would be locally devastating. Let’s take a look at that.
The DNR and Iowa Department of Agriculture and Land Stewardship (IDALS) already have a plan to keep Iowa’s deer herd as healthy as possible. If CWD does establish itself in the wild herd, the main objective is to control it as quickly and humanely as possible.
The first goal is to use surveillance and detection by monitoring instances of CWD. They will monitor both captive and free-ranging cervid (deer and elk) populations and use all available collection methods to track CWD within Iowa’s borders. OK, fine. No big deal.
The second goal is to contain the spread of CWD. Methods may include prohibition of transporting captive deer (unless issued a permit by IDALS), prohibition of providing feed for wildlife accessible to deer, and prohibition of rehabilitation and release of any deer into the wild. You might be saying goodbye to placing corn in front of your trail cameras and maybe even setting out mineral sites for your deer.
The third goal is to eliminate the presence of CWD is Iowa by "controlling the disease." This may be done by allocation of additional deer tags in affected areas and “depopulation” of susceptible deer in selected areas. More tags will be issued during hunting season to help reduce the deer herd in affected areas in hopes of eliminating the disease. Local landowners will also be recruited to kill deer from private land and DNR staff will kill deer on public land outside of hunting seasons. OK, makes sense, but somehow, I don’t think it will stop there.
Here is where it gets interesting: if wild deer are found to be infected in the vicinity of the infected captive herd, a five mile radius circle will be mapped and labeled as a surveillance zone. Around 300 wild deer older than 16 months of age will be killed and tested for CWD from each zone.
If free-ranging deer are found to be infected, the primary goal will be to dramatically reduce the densities of the herd. It’s estimated that only 5-10% of the wild herd in surveillance zones will remain. When it comes to infected captive herds depopulation will occur; this means all deer in the facility will be killed within sixty days.
Now, let's assume you own land in that five mile "depopulation" circle - how are you going to feel about the enclosure at that point? And what next? What if a few more deer test positive just outside the circle? Again, call a few deer hunters in the CWD zones in Wisconsin and Illinois and see what they think about their deer numbers getting pounded into the dirt.
Iowa's legislature is playing this pretty close to the vest, but it is a very big deal. Don’t think that just because there haven’t been lots of news releases about this that it is somehow not an issue. Trust me, if they start finding CWD in wild deer, you will see just how big of an issue it becomes!


THIS IS WHY I AM SCARED ABOUT HIGH FENCE OPERATIONS.
 
Fair enough.....challenge is what you make of it on a preserve of this size. With a rifle and lets say you didn't care what buck you took home, in a 3 day hunt you would probably have 3-4 good chances at a buck of the class you were hunting. With a bow, quite a few have gone home empty handed.....its not that you can't get bucks in front of you, you have to get a 4 or 5 year old in the class you are hunting in front of you. There are feeding stations in the preserve although the 80 or so acres of food plots is where you will find most of the deer feeding. Also after the first couple of weeks a good percentage of big boys will go noturnal and never show themselves until the heat of the rut, even then a handful aren't seen until the dead of winter. You guys might not think that possible , but there are a handful of bucks on the property that we have been trying to kill for the last 4 years....
 
Hunting on a preserve, not for me.

I have a lifelong friend that I have know since we attended kindergarten together. He got into raising deer. When you walk up to the pen, they run away, so they seem rather wild to me. They won't come up to eat out of your hand like a pet.

He took a 200" deer down to a hunting preserve. I think it might have been 90 or 180 acres of rough river bottom. None of the hunting clients saw it the whole season.

Not my cup of tea, I'm more of a lottery type of guy. I'd rather buy a statewide tag and dream about what might walk by while hunting, without knowing the trapped population. But then again, I'm "frugal".:D
 
What a deer!!!!!!!!!! :D It is what it is! A goat! Nobody on this earth will convince me it takes as much to kill a goat as it does to kill a free ranging whitetail! You pay a few thousand to have your kid kill a goat ....Yippee!! :way: Your Money!!! Now lets get back to ..IOWA WHITETAIL!!!!!!!!!!! :way:
 
I didn't take the time to read every post. But here is my .02 on high fence. I LOVE IT!!!!! Keeps all the high rollers from buying or leasing up all the free range ground, and If they shoot a giant and are happy good for them. As far as the horn porn I can take it or leave it.

Mobile Cooter using IW
 
Bruce, keep posting the pics.... No matter what, I always like looking at big racks!!!! And if you ever need any help shedding any of the farms please feel free to PM me!!!!!

Mark.....
 
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