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Tree Planting

dbltree said:
Yes for the most part whites drop earlier and they suck those down like candy but eventually they run out and they turn to the reds.

You see why we are all planting sweet white oak varieties like Dwarf Chinkapin Oak....:way:

p.s....I think those would do very well out your way too...;)
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The wildlife biologist didn't think that live oak would do well in our area (too far from central TX)....he wasn't sure about dwarf chinkapin (some chinkapin NE of us). From what info I've gathered so far, burr oak is a suggested planting....how long before they produce mast?

Here is a sampling of our native oaks http://www.noble.org/WebApps/PlantImageGallery/PlantList.aspx?PlantTypeID=3&IndexType=CommonName so far, think I've identified 7 varieties on the place...post, blackjack, southern red, shumard and/or pin, water, and bigelow oak. Did take a close look at the hardwood bottom this weekend and there are several 1/4 to 1/2 ac natural openings with good light penetration and overgrown with mainly cheat and greenbrair...would be an easy planting and adequate moisture....soil is low pH and very low PnK.
 
how long before they produce mast?
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I'm not sure on burr oaks but probably sooner then the 25 years of a standard white oak.

I think you will find the DCO's will grow in your area as well as many other oaks.

If you take a look at the hybrid oaks that Oikios carries, many are from warmer, drier and more arid areas (the parent trees) such as gambel oaks, yet they are thriving all over the country.

Oikios Hybrid Oaks

The nice thing about Oikios is that you can buy just a couple or even some acorns and do some test plantings to see how they do.

You will also find however that forestors or area biologists are unlikely to be familiar with anything that is not native to your area. I'm not talking about invasive Asian species but just trees and shrubs native to our country that may not be native to your area of the country.

Those of us who are habitat "nerds" test the limits of adaptability sometimes and usually have suprisingly good results...;)
 
dbltree said:
Those of us who are habitat "nerds" test the limits of adaptability sometimes and usually have suprisingly good results...;)
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Birds of a feather....don't mind being a nerd myself! :)

Yeah, I looked through that link earlier and it is taking some time to digest the info. Will continue to browse through it. Which is his dwarf chinkapin variety?

One prioity of ours is to 'reap the fruits of thy labor' so those varieties producing within 10 yrs are enlightenting. We have a multitude of sites for testing...upland well drained rough rocky soil....decent upland soil...bottomland subject to ocassional flooding....slightly acidic and low P are the norm. Winters are generally mild with ice storms being the biggest threat. Summer can be very droughty. The girls have a lil dirt farmer in them, so that helps! :way:
 
Which is his dwarf chinkapin variety?
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Here's the link...

Dwarf Chinkapin Oak — Quercus prinoides

and here the info on Oikos DCO's

Dwarf Chinkapin Oak — Quercus prinoides

ECOS Rare Native Shrub Oak
Dwarf Chinkapin Oak is an obscure oak found in scattered populations throughout the Midwest and Northeast. It is the only oak in this area that produces runners.

It is not uncommon to see small 3-4 ft. trees loaded with acorns. Trees in our orchard have fruited when 2 ft. tall. Slow growing, but extremely drought tolerant.

Our seed trees were produced using wild collected seed from Nebraska found in a wide open windswept area-perfect for dwarf chinkapin oak.

Acorns ripen in August and sprout quickly. Because they ripen in clusters at the end of the branches birds take note and they often fly off with the crop. Especially attractive to turkey. Height from 6-15 ft. tall with equal width. Often multi-trunked. –30 F hardiness. Non-hybrid true to type seedlings. Hardiness -30 °F.
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Thanks LC...found that on his 'specie oak' page after posting the question.

Sent him an email yesterday asking about what info he would need to help us select the right varieties and here is his reply "Yes go ahead and send that map if it’s not too much trouble. That might help a lot. If you want I can call you back at your convenience and give you some ideas as well. One thing to check would be the soils ph. That can have a strong influence if too alkaline. From what you mentioned I think you could grow a variety of different oaks but may find some better adapted to your region-more vigorous and productive as far as producing acorns."

The USGS soils map will be a big help....with slightly acidic soils we shouldn't have many problems.
 
dgallow said:
Thanks LC...found that on his 'specie oak' page after posting the question.

Sent him an email yesterday asking about what info he would need to help us select the right varieties and here is his reply "Yes go ahead and send that map if it’s not too much trouble. That might help a lot. If you want I can call you back at your convenience and give you some ideas as well. One thing to check would be the soils ph. That can have a strong influence if too alkaline. From what you mentioned I think you could grow a variety of different oaks but may find some better adapted to your region-more vigorous and productive as far as producing acorns."

The USGS soils map will be a big help....with slightly acidic soils we shouldn't have many problems.
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What all species of oaks do you already have?? That can help determine what you can plant since most grow in association with other particular species of oaks. :way:

Say if you have pure white oaks growing then you know the soil is not water logged and well drained since they cannot handle that. Northern red oaks love well drained soils that retain moisture such as north or east facing slopes.
 
Not to change the subject.. but i'm curious on the effects of fertilizer on trees, specifically oaks. I'm not wanting to fertilize all the oaks I plant, but plan on planting quite a few young oaks in my yard in the coming months. And if the right amount of fertilizer would help their growth then i'll do it, but also don't want to burn them if they could easily react that way to it. I don't see too much mention of fertilizer for tree plantings, outside of fruit trees...either that or I missed it! Thanks guys
 
Joey Rott said:
Not to change the subject.. but i'm curious on the effects of fertilizer on trees, specifically oaks. I'm not wanting to fertilize all the oaks I plant, but plan on planting quite a few young oaks in my yard in the coming months. And if the right amount of fertilizer would help their growth then i'll do it, but also don't want to burn them if they could easily react that way to it. I don't see too much mention of fertilizer for tree plantings, outside of fruit trees...either that or I missed it! Thanks guys
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You can use a common fertilizer like 10-10-10 or some such and fertilize around the drip line of trees. A pound or so on 4-5' trees or purchase tree spikes such as these.

Fertilizer Tree Spikes

Here's a good article on the subject!

Tree Fertilization

There are sources that carry small bags of fertilizer that leach nutrients slowly and places like Oikos carry some for seedlings.

Oikos Fertilizer options

Nothing wrong with helping them along Joey!:way:
 
I would like to start some of my acorns and chestnuts inside perhaps in March, something new to me so I'm wondering if i should try the Root Maker pots orthe paper pots that Oikos sells?

Any thoughts letemgrow?

RootMaker

The plant bands certainly are inexpensive...;)

Oikos tree crops - plant bands

The seedlings from Idaho sure had great root systems and appear to have been started in something like the root maker system but growth and mortality was no different then the seedlings from Oikos in the plant bands...
 
The rootmaker bags and express 18 cell trays are what I use. I have the 12 inch bags and 5-gallon RM-II bags and that system has worked very very well for me. I start the seeds in the express 18 cell trays since each individual tray can be moved in and out to another tray if needed. Then I either plant them out on the farm after that or move them to a bag.

I would go with the RM products since the plant bands could only be used once and then you would have to buy more. The RM products can be used over and over. The plant band seedlings I have from Oikos are doing well too, I just like to grow a lot of my own stuff and prefer the RM products personally. :D

Personally I would buy the RM Express 18 cell plastic containers and the shuttle trays to go with them, then get some 12 inch RT-II 5 inch bags and some 5-gallon, RT115. They are 15" tall and 10" in diamater and a great step up from the 18 cell trays.

I also use the 5-gallon bags to start my perennial wildflowers in. I buy the seeds by the packets and then plant 20-30 rhizomatous widlfowers in each pot and grow them all summer. Then I take them out and sort out and usually end up with at least 30 plants per pot which is a great saving over the $4 a plant it usually costs from the nurseries. I buy the packets for 2 bucks in most cases and that turns into 30 seedlings.

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You could also grow your nwsg in those containers as plugs and them plant them out where you want them....they are good for more than just trees and shrubs. :D
 
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Personally I would buy the RM Express 18 cell plastic containers and the shuttle trays to go with them, then get some 12 inch RT-II 5 inch bags and some 5-gallon, RT115. They are 15" tall and 10" in diamater and a great step up from the 18 cell trays.
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Got it! :way:

You could also grow your nwsg in those containers as plugs and them plant them out where you want them....they are good for more than just trees and shrubs.
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Great idea...never thought of that!! :)
 
I grew some western sunflowers in a pot this past year, when I went to remove the plants, they had spread very well and there was a lot of rhizomes to break off that had formed their own root system. One thing to note when using this method. 15-30 plants per big pot require a lot of water with all those roots so I would water daily in the summer or anytime I saw signs of wilting.

I will be doing the same thing this next summer with some saw-tooth sunflower, showy sunflower, maximilliam sunflower, tall sunflower, white and purple prairie clover, slender lespedeza and showy tick trefoil. I will keep part of the packets back and stratify them in the fridge, then plant each species in a single pot and grow my own plants to take to the farm. All the above sunflowers are perennials and rhizomatous and I am anxious to see how well the deer browse them. If nothing else, the birdies will sure thank me :D
 
Here is an example of a persimmon from seed, they were started in the 5-gallon bags and left all summer. I just threw in some seeds and left them all winter and very few survived, but enough to get the job done!!

Here they are in their summer glory:

Persimmons-1.jpg


Roots after I removed all the potting soil to transplant them bareroot for better success. I recommend all potting soil be removed as it seems to hinder drainage in most cases since it drains far better than the surrounding soils, it actually makes water stay in the planting hole.

PersimmonRootmaker.jpg
 
I wanted to order seedlings from Penn Nursery it's our Pa. state funded seed source. When checking stock for next spring plantings here the message that was posted on their site.

The Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, Bureau of Forestry manages a program of raising and selling forest tree seedlings that Pennsylvania landowners can purchase for watershed protection, wood products, soil erosion control, reclamation of areas affected by open pit mining, or wildlife food and cover.

Due to the State budget situation, we are suspending seedling sales for the spring of 2010 to private landowners. Please check back in the fall of 2010 for an update on the 2011 season. We regret any inconvenience this may cause.


We didnt have a state budget for over 100 days after the end of June, looks like this was one of the programs without funding.

Looks like I'll be picking up acorns to seed. I was hoping for dogwoods for cover.
 
Baranx4 said:
I wanted to order seedlings from Penn Nursery it's our Pa. state funded seed source. When checking stock for next spring plantings here the message that was posted on their site.

The Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, Bureau of Forestry manages a program of raising and selling forest tree seedlings that Pennsylvania landowners can purchase for watershed protection, wood products, soil erosion control, reclamation of areas affected by open pit mining, or wildlife food and cover.

Due to the State budget situation, we are suspending seedling sales for the spring of 2010 to private landowners. Please check back in the fall of 2010 for an update on the 2011 season. We regret any inconvenience this may cause.


We didnt have a state budget for over 100 days after the end of June, looks like this was one of the programs without funding.

Looks like I'll be picking up acorns to seed. I was hoping for dogwoods for cover.
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Plenty of other very reasonable seedling sources...including Iowa's State Nursery, just check the first page for a list of nurseries...:way:
 
dbltree said:
Plenty of other very reasonable seedling sources...including Iowa's State Nursery, just check the first page for a list of nurseries...:way:
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I checked Missouri's and while it didn't say it wouldn't ship out of state it listed it as a discount source for it's states resident. I'll try it.

Thanks.
 
Baranx4,

The MO seedlings are great quality and fair priced. Are you looking for anything besides dogwoods?? There are lots of top quality browse/mast there to order if you need any pointers.
 
Earlier it was mentioned that the leaves of persimmon seedlings are poisonous so deer usually don't eat them. Does that change as the tree matures or do deer usually never browse them even when the trees are older? Also, do rabbits and mice chew or girdle persimmons like apple trees or oaks? If the deer don't browse them and the rabbits and mice don't chew on them I would think that they would be an excellent tree to plant for wildlife because you would not have to fence them (unless you have so many big bucks like in Iowa where they might rub most of them to death). I've planted many apple trees over the years that I started from seed and what I've learned is that you must protect the seedling from rabbits, mice, and deer or none will survive. I remember dbltree said he planted many crabapple trees years ago and none survived. Did you put anything around them to keep the mice and rabbits from chewing on them? If not, my guess is that is why none survived.

letemgrow or anyone else, do you have any persimmon seeds that I could buy? Does anyone know if there are places that sell persimmon or chinese chestnut seeds? My guess is that when you plant persimmons from seed some of the trees will be male and some female, it's just varies from one see to the next right? letemgrow, how old are the oldest persimmon trees that you have started from seed and are any of them fruiting yet? Do they grow fast? How many years from seed before they produce fruit?

thanks!
 
Letemgrow and DT will have more to say on this topic BUT I don't have problems with rabbits, deer or mice with my persimmons. I do use tree tubes on MOST of them though. Every year I've planted 25-200 of them for last 5 years and I'd say 50% die off each year. Planting seed would help that OR just plan on some dying off which didn't bug me too bad considering I probably have 300 growing well now even though many died (they were not expensive AND I did some from seed). So- harder to get growing than apple BUT things mess with them far less. No reason NOT to plant BOTH- just treat and protect them differently. I'm a touch nervous on how far north you are BUT I'm sure you can get some to reach maturity.
 
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