dbltree
Super Moderator
[ QUOTE ]
I am in the process of getting ready to do a major TSI (Timber Stand Improvement) project on my ground.
My goal is to achieve higher quality deer and turkey habitat.
I'm interested in hearing from anyone that has completed a TSI project on their own ground.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is this in conjunction with a DNR Forester recommended TSI...or...or just something your doing on your own Ghost?
I have never done a TSI projects that I was paid for, but I have had our area forester walk my property and point out which trees to kill and which to leave and why.
Since then I have just followed his advice and I slowly have been killing everything but the oaks of all species. I kill shingle oak if they are setting back a more desirable oak species.
Some use fire also, but I prefer the brush and encourage brush, blackberry thickets. I also encourage red cedars. My own feelings are that proper timber managment (for timber) does not always go hand in hand with managing for wildlife. Turkeys of course prefer the open timber habitat but I prefer more brushy areas for deer.
My forester just told me to girdle the undesirable trees, but I tip them over often living them alive and basically making a mess...not exactly proper TSI
Lot of good ideas at this site: http://www.iowadnr.com/forestry/private.html
Check out Sample plan #1 good pics and info there.
I am in the process of getting ready to do a major TSI (Timber Stand Improvement) project on my ground.
My goal is to achieve higher quality deer and turkey habitat.
I'm interested in hearing from anyone that has completed a TSI project on their own ground.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is this in conjunction with a DNR Forester recommended TSI...or...or just something your doing on your own Ghost?
I have never done a TSI projects that I was paid for, but I have had our area forester walk my property and point out which trees to kill and which to leave and why.
Since then I have just followed his advice and I slowly have been killing everything but the oaks of all species. I kill shingle oak if they are setting back a more desirable oak species.
Some use fire also, but I prefer the brush and encourage brush, blackberry thickets. I also encourage red cedars. My own feelings are that proper timber managment (for timber) does not always go hand in hand with managing for wildlife. Turkeys of course prefer the open timber habitat but I prefer more brushy areas for deer.
My forester just told me to girdle the undesirable trees, but I tip them over often living them alive and basically making a mess...not exactly proper TSI
Lot of good ideas at this site: http://www.iowadnr.com/forestry/private.html
Check out Sample plan #1 good pics and info there.
dbltree
Super Moderator
Spent most of the day doing "something"...but I would hardly call it TSI
That would be like comparing a heart surgeon to a chain saw massacre (what I do, much closer to the latter
)
Just a few notes that come to mind, since this is a somewhat dangerous segment of deer habitat management...
Make sure someone is with you, being pinned under a tree all alone doesn't seem like the best thing!
If you have a hardhat...wear it! Had a locust tree drop straight down and drive a thorn into the top of my head!
Make sure you have a clear path to "get away"...no matter that I notched the tree, allowed for the wind, etc....sometimes the thing just comes backwards, or rolls off another tree...and
Steel toes would have come in handy when one tree dropped straight down on my foot!
Basically plan for the unexpected because you may just find out how fast you can crawl thru a multiflora rose bush, or how easily you can trip and drive your chainsaw blade into the mud...trying to get away in the milli second it takes for a tree to come down...the wrong way!
![icon_redface[1].gif](https://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon_redface[1].gif)
Last but not least...for those of you that are married...don't forget to dump all the woodchips out of your pockets...BEFORE...your jeans end up in the washing machine!
If the falling trees or the chainsaw don't kill you...your wife will!
Just a few notes that come to mind, since this is a somewhat dangerous segment of deer habitat management...
Make sure someone is with you, being pinned under a tree all alone doesn't seem like the best thing!
If you have a hardhat...wear it! Had a locust tree drop straight down and drive a thorn into the top of my head!
Make sure you have a clear path to "get away"...no matter that I notched the tree, allowed for the wind, etc....sometimes the thing just comes backwards, or rolls off another tree...and
Steel toes would have come in handy when one tree dropped straight down on my foot!
Basically plan for the unexpected because you may just find out how fast you can crawl thru a multiflora rose bush, or how easily you can trip and drive your chainsaw blade into the mud...trying to get away in the milli second it takes for a tree to come down...the wrong way!
Last but not least...for those of you that are married...don't forget to dump all the woodchips out of your pockets...BEFORE...your jeans end up in the washing machine!
If the falling trees or the chainsaw don't kill you...your wife will!
cornfield
New Member
Great points dbltree. I spent about 4 hours cutting hickory on Saturday and either learned or practiced the points you brought up. I realized why loggers get paid good money. ALWAYS have a cell phone and a buddy with you. It sure was fun standing on the next ridge and looking at the mess we made when we were wore out.
bjkpharmd
New Member
One of the nice things about just girdling trees is you get to carry a really light saw as it only takes a short bar and the trees don't fall down for a couple years. After a tree has stood and dries out, when it does fall it is less likely to damage a neighboring tree. Doesn't take the place of making a mess of snags for cover and browse but sure quicker and safer.
FarmlandQDM
New Member
Two things to consider Ghost ...
a TSI for wildlife maybe a little different than a TSI for timber value and the DNR Foresters sometimes have a hard time seeing the wildlife TSI potential ...
and don't bite off more than you can chew, 20 acres of TSI is alot of work, we signed up for 40 acres last year and found ourselves coming too close to being in the woods the first of October with chainsaws instead of bows ...
a TSI for wildlife maybe a little different than a TSI for timber value and the DNR Foresters sometimes have a hard time seeing the wildlife TSI potential ...
and don't bite off more than you can chew, 20 acres of TSI is alot of work, we signed up for 40 acres last year and found ourselves coming too close to being in the woods the first of October with chainsaws instead of bows ...
dbltree
Super Moderator
I took along a little "cheapo" disposable camera (chainsaws and falling trees didn't seem like a safe place for an expensive camera) so eventually I'll post some pics. I do have a spot that is like 4-5 years old...all "tipped" over trees, grown up to brambles...deer LOVE that spot!!
Here's a link to "edge feathering" which shows the size of trees I was working with. Not "timber" by any means, but very old overgrown pastures.
http://www.mo.nrcs.usda.gov/technical/forms/out/JSBIOL18EdgeFeathering2_2005.pdf#search='edge%20feathering'
Girdling is of course the proper way for true TSI, but I want a "mess"
I want tipped over trees, crossed every which way which opens it up for a wild mess of blackberry and multiflora rose. The kind of stuff deer love to bed in and feed in mid-day. I cut the trees mostly 2-4' high so that they will send out sprouts. I want the kind of cover that "party hunters" would rather walk around then thru
I had deer coming out into a low hidden field from every place, so I tipped all the "edge trees" out into the fields and then used the tractor and loader and pushed them around to act as a "fence" to force deer thru only a couple of runways (just happens to be by my stands
)
This site has great info about all types of wildlife habitat one can create with a chainsaw, from brushpiles to TSI
http://www.kdfwr.state.ky.us/edge.asp
I'm glad I'm not the only one that was "wore out"...had to eat a 1/2 bottle of Aleve after a day of "chainsaw massacre"
Here's a link to "edge feathering" which shows the size of trees I was working with. Not "timber" by any means, but very old overgrown pastures.
http://www.mo.nrcs.usda.gov/technical/forms/out/JSBIOL18EdgeFeathering2_2005.pdf#search='edge%20feathering'
Girdling is of course the proper way for true TSI, but I want a "mess"
I want tipped over trees, crossed every which way which opens it up for a wild mess of blackberry and multiflora rose. The kind of stuff deer love to bed in and feed in mid-day. I cut the trees mostly 2-4' high so that they will send out sprouts. I want the kind of cover that "party hunters" would rather walk around then thru
I had deer coming out into a low hidden field from every place, so I tipped all the "edge trees" out into the fields and then used the tractor and loader and pushed them around to act as a "fence" to force deer thru only a couple of runways (just happens to be by my stands
This site has great info about all types of wildlife habitat one can create with a chainsaw, from brushpiles to TSI
http://www.kdfwr.state.ky.us/edge.asp
I'm glad I'm not the only one that was "wore out"...had to eat a 1/2 bottle of Aleve after a day of "chainsaw massacre"
Ghost
Life Member
[ QUOTE ]
Two things to consider Ghost ...
a TSI for wildlife maybe a little different than a TSI for timber value and the DNR Foresters sometimes have a hard time seeing the wildlife TSI potential ...
and don't bite off more than you can chew, 20 acres of TSI is alot of work, we signed up for 40 acres last year and found ourselves coming too close to being in the woods the first of October with chainsaws instead of bows ...
[/ QUOTE ]
I am going to have all the work done. I realize I can't do 80 acres by myself.
Two things to consider Ghost ...
a TSI for wildlife maybe a little different than a TSI for timber value and the DNR Foresters sometimes have a hard time seeing the wildlife TSI potential ...
and don't bite off more than you can chew, 20 acres of TSI is alot of work, we signed up for 40 acres last year and found ourselves coming too close to being in the woods the first of October with chainsaws instead of bows ...
[/ QUOTE ]
I am going to have all the work done. I realize I can't do 80 acres by myself.
Liv4Rut
Active Member
The results or TSI are pretty amazing. I have seen a timber that looked like a perfectly grazed cow pasture, turn into the thickest nastiest thing you can imagine. The quality of hunting and the amount of deer on the guys land is phenomenol, compared to the first year he bought it. It will work
It sures getting to and from your tree stand tricky though
loneranger
Well-Known Member
How can you tell shingle oak from other oak? And why are they BAD?
dbltree
Super Moderator
[ QUOTE ]
How can you tell shingle oak from other oak? And why are they BAD?
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They are more common along edges or overgrown areas. I don't think they are bad but their not valuable for timber like other oaks. Good wildlife habitat, so I mostly leave them alone.
Here's a link with a pic of the leaves:
http://www.extension.iastate.edu/pages/tree/shin-oak.html
How can you tell shingle oak from other oak? And why are they BAD?
[/ QUOTE ]
They are more common along edges or overgrown areas. I don't think they are bad but their not valuable for timber like other oaks. Good wildlife habitat, so I mostly leave them alone.
Here's a link with a pic of the leaves:
http://www.extension.iastate.edu/pages/tree/shin-oak.html
Ghost
Life Member
dbltree
Super Moderator
Guess I need to find a pic...could be I have some too...although I'm waaaay north of you pharmer
http://wildwnc.org/trees/Quercus_stellata.html
http://wildwnc.org/trees/Quercus_stellata.html
darkhollow1
PMA Member
I have recently started a TSI program in my timber. Slowly but surely I have been gradling the ironwood, hackberry, and poor quality trees. Trying to promote the growth of oak, walnut, elm, and cherry trees. The ironwoods seem to be a real problem. The ironwoods are the real fine barked trees that are still carrying some of their leaves to this day. Anybody else running in to this type of tree/problem?