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What are my options?

Field Service

Field Service

New Member
I’d like to plant some food and cover between many rows of trees. My first choice would be red cedars around the first few outside rows. Then a few rows of switch and finally some soys. I’m concerned with the amount of shade. (I’m out of real tillable acres until a dozer can be arranged for some junk timber.)

Another item of concern is the black walnut. I have planted white pine in the general area of mature walnut in the past and they did not survive past 3 years. (I think they kind of poison the ground for some plant types.)

What do you think will tolerate the filtered light and walnut? Maybe peas?


This is what I'm dealing with... The spacing is 20'x20' if that helps.
Spring foliage
P1010215.jpg


Mid Oct foliage
P1010344.jpg
 
About walnuts, I know you can't plant a garden any where near walnuts. I belive they turn the soil very acidic. I'd be very leary of planting anything anywhere close to them.

The 'Bonker
 
I would have a small concern with switch near your trees also. A dry year and a fire could ruin a lot of hard work. Quite a root system on switch also, may compete with trees for nutrients and water. Nice looking stand of trees by the way! "Thumbs up".
 
Ohio State University

See the list of plants at the above URL.

The roots of Black Walnut (Juglans nigra L.) and Butternut (Juglans cinerea L.) produce a substance known as juglone (5-hydroxy-alphanapthaquinone). Persian (English or Carpathian) walnut trees are sometimes grafted onto black walnut rootstocks. Many plants such as tomato, potato, blackberry, blueberry, azalea, mountain laurel, rhododendron, red pine and apple may be injured or killed within one to two months of growth within the root zone of these trees. The toxic zone from a mature tree occurs on average in a 50 to 60 foot radius from the trunk, but can be up to 80 feet. The area affected extends outward each year as a tree enlarges. Young trees two to eight feet high can have a root diameter twice the height of the top of the tree, with susceptible plants dead within the root zone and dying at the margins.

Not all plants are sensitive to juglone. Many trees, vines, shrubs, groundcovers, annuals and perennials will grow in close proximity to a walnut tree. Certain cultivars of "resistant" species are reported to do poorly. Black walnut has been recommended for pastures on hillsides in the Ohio Valley and Appalachian mountain regions. Trees hold the soil, prevent erosion and provide shade for cattle. The beneficial effect of black walnut on pastures in encouraging the growth of Kentucky bluegrass (Poa pratensis L.) and other grasses appears to be valid as long as there is sufficient sunlight and water.
 
Black walnuts are allelopathic...which in laymans terms means that they exude their own natural herbicide...so I think that plotting in between the rows is going to be a major challenge. Another thing to think about, tillage between these trees is going to harm your walnut planting. 90% of a trees roots are in the top 3-4 inches of soil. If you perform tillage between rows you will greatly stunt or possibly even kill your walnuts. About the only thing I can think of would be hostas...I have a large hosta garden at home and at least 4-5 varieties have done well near a huge walnut that I have. The deer litterally mow my hostas to the ground during mid-summer and winter, but planting them on a large scale would probably be very costly. They are dividable though so if you bought some cheap, planted and then divided every 2-3 years you could provide a limited food source....Just thinkin out loud on the hostas though
 
Have they released RR Hostas yet? I only play a farmer on the weekends…. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
Hope your wrong about the tillage or I have killed a lot of nice trees this past fall. In the bottom pic where the rows looked mowed it was roto-tilled and seeded to ww and rye… I’m feeling ill now… /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sick.gif
 
I think monsanto is still a ways out on the RR hostas /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Hopefully your tillage won't cause any permanent loss but i'm sure that you set your trees back some. If we have a decent year for moisture they ought to bounce back from it. It's the fibrous roots that are located in the soil surface...they provide most of the moisture and nutrient uptake to your trees. They won't die from tillage but essentially you made the straw a little shorter in terms of them getting a drink. I would look into planting something that would not require any tillage...maybe you could get away with applying roundup and broadcast brassicas, or rye in the killed sod.
 
Ahhh yesss..black walnuts...I think I'd rather plant black locusts... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif I learned (like every thing else... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif ) the hard way many years ago that even other trees such as apple trees would do very nicely for awhile and then suddenly die when planted near my BW trees...eventually I found out the info that Randy posted and decided to contact a logger about cutting them.

I found out that the most valuable BW trees usually grow in river bottom type areas where moisture and canopy force them to grow tall and straight with no limbs.

Mine of course were growing in an "upland" area and had limbs 8 feet off the ground. He offered me 80 bucks for the biggest one and said "you can keep the rest"...so much for getting rich off my black walnut trees....

Grasses like rye will grow near BW's but I don't recall if I ever tried clover, which would do better in some light shade.

You might try some different things to see what fares best...and then let us know what works! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Field Service</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the bottom pic where the rows looked mowed it was roto-tilled and seeded to ww and rye… I’m feeling ill now… /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sick.gif
</div></div>

Just curious, and somewhat ignorant...

I wonder if tillage depth makes that much of a difference, how deep does a guy generally roto-till, it can't be as deep as one would plow/cultivat is it?
 
I haven't measured it, but I bet it is a good 5 to 6 inches. I'll check this spring. There are skid plates on each side of the KK tillers that are adjustable for depth. Never messed with them...

Thinking now if I do plant something it will be a single 6' strip down the middle of the rows, leaving 7ft to the trunk on each side. I'm a little nervous now...
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Field Service</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I haven't measured it, but I bet it is a good 5 to 6 inches. I'll check this spring. There are skid plates on each side of the KK tillers that are adjustable for depth. Never messed with them...

Thinking now if I do plant something it will be a single 6' strip down the middle of the rows, leaving 7ft to the trunk on each side. I'm a little nervous now... </div></div>

If you check my threads on clover and cereal grains you'll see that I have been planting both in between my trees for several years now.

I use a tiller which doesn't go real deep and thus far I have not noticed any ill effects on my trees. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
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