abell3
Well-Known Member
I would say both.
Changing the Hunting Industry- Matt Rinella- podcast & discussion
CottonwoodCanyon
Active Member
Both. Matt and Steve are not on great terms, M has mentioned it on previous podcasts. Hate is a strong word towards a brother but it seems there's some tension for sure. It sounded to me like he doesn't agree with how involved in the "industry" MeatEater has become with all of their acquisitions and notoriety.
bigbuckhunter88
PMA Member
Personally I don't think hes jealous of Steve at all. I do think he's been burned by both Steve and the industry. One of the original meateater episodes when it actually was enjoyable for me. They talked about how Matt had taken Steve and Janis to his secret honey hole on some mountain. Even went through the hoops of driving a different vehicle to not draw attention. Wouldn't take long now for people to recognize anyone from the meateater crew on a trailhead and the word is out and the spot you spent all the time and energy finding is now everyone favorite spot.
I love comments that go against the grain. Or debatable issues. We aren’t group-think echo chamber here. All good!!
Crossbows are not the “end of hunting” or some extreme.
- In iowa- they would: degrade our age class, substantially IMO.
-Reduce access to already crowded archery ground. Ramp the pace up of hunters not having access to quality land. It’s bad as it is. It would intensely amplify it.
-hunters aren’t asking for them. They are vastly against them in archery for able bodied folks. It’s purely the crossbow companies & lobbyists why we are even discussing them!!!!! This point alone disgusts me!!!! They spend a couple hundred grand to lobby, buy politicians & try to get it passed. Against the wishes of hunters. So they can make a couple million bucks. No care of ramifications to the state as they only care about $ & are in NEW YORK!!!!!
-crossbows have a season- late ML season. & for seniors & disabled. Keep it that way. Only ones wanting a change are the crossbow companies.
It’s sick. It’s greed & why people are disgusted with our political system.
Once iowa is gone, there’s no coming back!!!! Keep Iowa Great!!!!
Wapsi Tree Rat
Well-Known Member
Steve Rinella loves the hunt, just like any of us. To me, Steve sets himself apart from other social media by delivering the entire experience from the hunt, to butchering, right to the table. Above all else seems to be his passion and skill in turning the edible into delicious. He has changed my life drastically, along with my kids. I used to hunt for a big buck and if I got one it was sticks and jerky. Now I'd rather have 10 does because I PREFER pure venison over beef. OK, beef prime rib or smoked brisket are tough to compete with, but venison steaks or a front shoulder roast done right is just damn good. Thank you Steve Rinella.
As we're working toward keeping crossbows out of Iowa deer hunting, how would we go about getting rid of rifles too? Difference is they're already here. I'd be more than happy to let mine collect dust if we went back to being a bow, muzzy, shotgun ONLY state.
There’s the issue I want to instill in people…. It’s far easier to keep something out in first place VS trying to remove something once it’s introduced!!!!!
Why we will fight tooth & nail against crossbow lobby. & if we fight- we will win.
Once things are in…. Now guys spend “gazillion dollars for their new fancy _____”. It’s so hard to take that back. “U want to take away my fancy weapon and take away my opportunities?!?” That’s a tough one. Far easier on front end … “not taking anything away because we didn’t allow it in first place”.
Crossbows is one of about 6 issues that are a hill to die on. Iowa has its issues as it sits. But over my dead body do we have to shoot ourselves in the foot to make it worse. Other states flushed their management down the toilet. By no means does that mean iowa has to!!!! We are probably the most fragile state in the Midwest…. As long as we hold the line…. & we can!!!! Iowa will stay great.
Bigger issues: media/celeb tags - reaching a collective amount of views in the 8 figures!!!! Needs to go. Keep crossbow laws same. Infinite solutions that there’s plans for that could fund more access to quality land…. Alleviate some pressure so regular folks have access to quality land. Reduce quotas in northern counties where needed. Education & awareness of 3 solutions that already exist to control high deer # pockets. Quit proposing insanity with NR tag stuff. Stop with outfitter tag proposals or LO’s getting tags they can auction off! On & on. We have a very robust solid list with details & a plan. All coming to the capital this year!! We are going to have a larger lobbying presence as well!!!
hesseu
Well-Known Member
Yep...I'll be the "huckleberry" on this one
1) Possibly...or, it would improve age class. Many who make a "switch over" actually up their goals in what they harvest because they do believe that it is a superior weapon. Similar to bowhunters who also hunt with a firearm. Many have 2 different sets of standards. So, this may actually increase the standard across the board.
2) In Missouri, we have seen zero difference in access to land with the inclusion of crossbows. 1/10 of 1% who didn't previously hunt, would now be "motivated" to hunt with a crossbow. In fact, it the "motivation" provided by a weapon would only be temporary. Long term, you may convert 5-10% of firearms hunters.
3) No disagreement here. It is a business they are running
...so, they are going to do everything they can to increase sales Lol.Adjustments to season lengths, bag limits, APR's, etc can all alter age class. In my opinion, firearms season placement is the SINGLE largest influencer of age class structure. Just look to my home state of Missouri. We should easily be the MECCA of deer hunting...but, because firearms season is smack dab in the middle of the rut...you know the rest of the story.
Now, look at the 2 states just west of us. Kansas and Oklahoma. Both allow crossbows and baiting. BUT, firearms seasons (even ever so slightly with Oklahoma) are moved further back. Both states have a much better age structure and mature buck hunting than the mighty Mo does. Illinois...allows crossbows and has a unique firearms structure and a season that starts later. Same thing.
The Facts About Crossbows in the Deer Woods | National Deer Association
deerassociation.com
Good stuff!!!!Yep...I'll be the "huckleberry" on this one
1) Possibly...or, it would improve age class. Many who make a "switch over" actually up their goals in what they harvest because they do believe that it is a superior weapon. Similar to bowhunters who also hunt with a firearm. Many have 2 different sets of standards. So, this may actually increase the standard across the board.
2) In Missouri, we have seen zero difference in access to land with the inclusion of crossbows. 1/10 of 1% who didn't previously hunt, would now be "motivated" to hunt with a crossbow. In fact, it the "motivation" provided by a weapon would only be temporary. Long term, you may convert 5-10% of firearms hunters.
3) No disagreement here. It is a business they are running
Adjustments to season lengths, bag limits, APR's, etc can all alter age class. In my opinion, firearms season placement is the SINGLE largest influencer of age class structure. Just look to my home state of Missouri. We should easily be the MECCA of deer hunting...but, because firearms season is smack dab in the middle of the rut...you know the rest of the story.
Now, look at the 2 states just west of us. Kansas and Oklahoma. Both allow crossbows and baiting. BUT, firearms seasons (even ever so slightly with Oklahoma) are moved further back. Both states have a much better age structure and mature buck hunting than the mighty Mo does. Illinois...allows crossbows and has a unique firearms structure and a season that starts later. Same thing.
The Facts About Crossbows in the Deer Woods | National Deer Association
THAT ARTICLE … Kip is a good dude. With that said- that article has HUUUUUGGGGEEEE holes in it!! HUGE!!! I would argue that the crossbow companies played a part in writing this!!!! Few things:
1) most states that have implemented crossbows for a long period of time have had hunter #’s DECLINE. Which they conveniently leave out!!!!
MI for example has lost 1/3rd of the hunters in last 20-ish years.
2) Conveniently forgets to mention a very large voice, % & movement in WI of hunters expressing “buyers remorse” & wanting law reversed. & a huge part of the serious hunters widely expressing to other states “don’t do what we did!”
3) Dwindling access to quality hunting land & hunters citing lack of quality land access as #1 reason they quit or not enjoy hunting
4) Iowa’s archery season is packed. Is there anyone on here who doesn’t find it hard to get archery access?????? Would it help or hurt the already packed access if we added crossbows to archery season? With <8% timber…. RIGHT NOW - TODAY - access is a HUGE problem. Why would we make it worse???? All while it’s available during late season & for seniors & disabled. It makes NO SENSE, other than getting it past for the Crossbow lobby wishes….
5) those crossbow companies can pay lobbyists & politicians to change it. Against hunter wishes. That’s called CRONY-CAPITALISM!!!! By definition - our system is supposed to represent the voters, citizens & residents. When we enact laws in favor of corporate greed- that’s a broken model & those folks need to be thrown out of office & citizens should/are fighting against this plague that defines what people hate about politics & want changed.
6) MO age class is defined by rifles in middle of rut. Agree. Kills it. KS is far better. But- iowa is insanely better than MO as well. I’d argue iowa is better than both: KS, MO, OK, NE, WI, IL, SD, MN, etc. All of which have some or all of these: way more habitat, crossbows, some have late or short gun seasons. Some have lower hunter density (SD, KS & NE). It’s not Just the gun season being later. It’s a bulk of a lot of issues.
7) I am on MO border…. Cross line into MO: access is worse. Far more leased up. All over it’s worse. Tied up like crazy to point of almost completely locked down. Way worse than iowa. I don’t want to replicate anything MO does for regs. Including crossbows.
8) anecdotally…. I speak with countless hunters from MI, MO, OH, KS, WI, etc. Unanimously… “do not allow them in!!!!!!!! U will regret it & once they in, there’s no getting rid of them!!” All I hear hundreds of times over. I believe them. I’ve seen it in those states.
9) <8% timber. 4.5 months of deer season. 7 seasons. 6+ weapon choices. Can use late season & seniors & disabled can use them. Why further degrade a fragile system? If it’s not broken- don’t fix it!!! Iowa is one of the last great states & anything great - folks want to EXPLOIT IT!!! Like Ravin Crossbows out of NEW YORK!!!! It’s crony-capitalism for them to TRY. It’s freedom & a Republic for US to fight them off!!!!!
hesseu
Well-Known Member
Found this in regards to Iowa...From 1988-1991 you have a 4 years of consistent entries. I can't find years from 1991-present. Does anyone have this?
hesseu
Well-Known Member
Love it! 1st off...I COMPLETELY agree that each state is unique, and must do what is best for each state. Heck, I've argued that north of the Missouri river and south of the Missouri river here should have different management practices...But, I completely understand why they don't.
1) So...if hunter #'s have declined, wouldn't that increase access to land? Your answer is no, BECAUSE of 7! LEASED land has had the largest impact to access on private properties forcing hunters to utilize public land. Leased land is typically made up of the following 3 groups: 1) Passionate hunter(s) who would hunt naked with atlatl if they had to (most of us here probably!) 2) A group (work, family, or friends related) who go in together on large properties and 90% of the time only firearms hunt. 3) Outfitters.
This also goes hand in hand with point #3. "The more land I / We lease, the better chance we have at harvesting a 'Big Buck' because we can manage it".
2) They may have buyers remorse, but what do the #'s show? I would like to see the # of P&Y and B&C entries over the past 30 years, yearly. I'm sure it is somewhere, I just can't locate it. This may show a degradation. Or, it may show the that we are becoming more accustomed to seeing / harvesting mature bucks, that our expectations have reached a point of diminishing returns.
4) As of 2010, approximately 5% of the state of Kansas is defined as timber. While timber does provide a habitat for hunters to utilize (i.e. treestands / saddles / etc), timber is not required for the flourishing of whitetails. Prairieland's have provided perfect habitat for whitetails for thousands of years. One could argue returning all that cropground into native prairie to increase access
5) I don't deny this, nor am I a fan of "crony-capitalism". I get it...I really do. I completely agree that if the hunters of Iowa do NOT want to include crossbows, they should be the ones to decide and have the say in this. Not paid off politicians.
6) Yes...all those states I mentioned are far better in age structure as a whole compared to Mo. They all have 1 thing in common...A latter firearms season. Oklahoma is THE most underrated state in the whole country. The hunters there are tight lipped because they know what they've got. HOWEVER, have you noticed the trend in the "hunting industry" with the increasing number of hunts on TV from Oklahoma the past 3-5 years? Limitations in access has already started there...and getting worse. It will be as bad as any other state by 2025.
7) You are correct...One of the leading causes is the fact that Missouri has OTC tags for archery AND firearms hunting for out-of-staters. It's an "outfitters" dream.
8) I am fully on board with you fighting your fight! Just playing "devil's advocate" on the crossbow issue.
Bassattackr
Well-Known Member
Ohh to get Missouri's rifle season out of the rut.
Can only dream..
Can only dream..
Love it! 1st off...I COMPLETELY agree that each state is unique, and must do what is best for each state. Heck, I've argued that north of the Missouri river and south of the Missouri river here should have different management practices...But, I completely understand why they don't.
1) So...if hunter #'s have declined, wouldn't that increase access to land? Your answer is no, BECAUSE of 7! LEASED land has had the largest impact to access on private properties forcing hunters to utilize public land. Leased land is typically made up of the following 3 groups: 1) Passionate hunter(s) who would hunt naked with atlatl if they had to (most of us here probably!) 2) A group (work, family, or friends related) who go in together on large properties and 90% of the time only firearms hunt. 3) Outfitters.
This also goes hand in hand with point #3. "The more land I / We lease, the better chance we have at harvesting a 'Big Buck' because we can manage it".
2) They may have buyers remorse, but what do the #'s show? I would like to see the # of P&Y and B&C entries over the past 30 years, yearly. I'm sure it is somewhere, I just can't locate it. This may show a degradation. Or, it may show the that we are becoming more accustomed to seeing / harvesting mature bucks, that our expectations have reached a point of diminishing returns.
4) As of 2010, approximately 5% of the state of Kansas is defined as timber. While timber does provide a habitat for hunters to utilize (i.e. treestands / saddles / etc), timber is not required for the flourishing of whitetails. Prairieland's have provided perfect habitat for whitetails for thousands of years. One could argue returning all that cropground into native prairie to increase access
5) I don't deny this, nor am I a fan of "crony-capitalism". I get it...I really do. I completely agree that if the hunters of Iowa do NOT want to include crossbows, they should be the ones to decide and have the say in this. Not paid off politicians.
6) Yes...all those states I mentioned are far better in age structure as a whole compared to Mo. They all have 1 thing in common...A latter firearms season. Oklahoma is THE most underrated state in the whole country. The hunters there are tight lipped because they know what they've got. HOWEVER, have you noticed the trend in the "hunting industry" with the increasing number of hunts on TV from Oklahoma the past 3-5 years? Limitations in access has already started there...and getting worse. It will be as bad as any other state by 2025.
7) You are correct...One of the leading causes is the fact that Missouri has OTC tags for archery AND firearms hunting for out-of-staters. It's an "outfitters" dream.
8) I am fully on board with you fighting your fight! Just playing "devil's advocate" on the crossbow issue.
Good points!!!! We agree on a lot!!!!
Why is access getting harder and why is land being leased?? I agree with a lot of what u said. My answer adds a few things…. Folks lease cause things have been liberalized badly in 25+ years… more seasons, more killing, far deadlier weapons & a government that’s “created more opportunities for everyone!”… which has actually ruined opportunities. So folks say “it’s gotten so out of hand, I need to lock up land to have quality hunting. To over-ride these crazy liberal regulations”. I assure anyone- u keep adding “this season & that weapon & higher quotas” - more guys will lock up more land. It’s a deadly spiral down that path. It’s a problem regardless- much of which the politicians & special interests created!!!….. if one wanted to SPEED UP the process or amplify it- add more BS like crossbows during archery…. Will have a NET IMPACT of more locked up land and less opportunities for everyone. Period. IMHO.
Hunters are quitting due to lack of access. Fewer guys control more land & gobble up more land as the hunters quit. It creates a bigger gap between the guys with tons of land vs the little guy with nothing. I always explained it to the guys who wanted RIFLES in iowa…. The casual hunter who isn’t educated about the whole system might say “sounds cool!!! Be fun to blast deer with high power at long range!!!” My response to that is: “how fun will it be to blast them with rifles on the ground u won’t have any access to???” They don’t realize that allowing “everything” will result in them having no where to go. Until it’s too late. 4.5 months. 7 seasons, 6+ weapons. How isn’t that enough!!??!?!? 20 years ago it was 30 yards with a bow & 100 yard shots with shotgun. Now it’s 50+ with a bow & 250-300 yards with straight wall. Which - fine….. but we also added to the seasons vs reducing. Increased quotas most the time vs reducing. We never dial things back. It’s always “more more more” - weapons or killing. & then folks don’t understand why access is incredibly hard & why everything is getting tied up + new hunters quitting. It’s glaringly obvious.
BTW: KS is 10% forested. 5.2 million acres & vastly less for hunter density. LINK TO CLICK: https://www.kansasforests.org/disco...5.2 million acres,the state's total land area
**there is some data with KS having a lower % of timber but with any set of data- the total amount of acres of forest is more than IA.
Here’s some forested acres by state data:
States With Most Forest Acres: 2024 List
We have listed the states from most to least forested acres. We have also included the percentage of acres forested & per capita.
www.gotreequotes.com
Iowa is <8% - doesn’t have plains like KS & we are at 2.1-2.9 million acres depending on data source. Kansas, without adding in plains… has 2x+ the amount of timber & less hunters. Iowa is this tiny sliver of land that the whole country wants to flock to. & some that wish to change it- for their own selfish interests. All because……. They ruined the other states!!!!
& look at how MN was once the #1 B&C state …. In 30 short years they went from #1 to …. A total joke & disaster!!
IsThisHeaven?
Active Member
Buying up land also negatively impacts access.
hesseu
Well-Known Member
Good points!!!! We agree on a lot!!!!
Why is access getting harder and why is land being leased?? I agree with a lot of what u said. My answer adds a few things…. Folks lease cause things have been liberalized badly in 25+ years… more seasons, more killing, far deadlier weapons & a government that’s “created more opportunities for everyone!”… which has actually ruined opportunities. So folks say “it’s gotten so out of hand, I need to lock up land to have quality hunting. To over-ride these crazy liberal regulations”. I assure anyone- u keep adding “this season & that weapon & higher quotas” - more guys will lock up more land. It’s a deadly spiral down that path. It’s a problem regardless- much of which the politicians & special interests created!!!….. if one wanted to SPEED UP the process or amplify it- add more BS like crossbows during archery…. Will have a NET IMPACT of more locked up land and less opportunities for everyone. Period. IMHO.
Hunters are quitting due to lack of access. Fewer guys control more land & gobble up more land as the hunters quit. It creates a bigger gap between the guys with tons of land vs the little guy with nothing. I always explained it to the guys who wanted RIFLES in iowa…. The casual hunter who isn’t educated about the whole system might say “sounds cool!!! Be fun to blast deer with high power at long range!!!” My response to that is: “how fun will it be to blast them with rifles on the ground u won’t have any access to???” They don’t realize that allowing “everything” will result in them having no where to go. Until it’s too late. 4.5 months. 7 seasons, 6+ weapons. How isn’t that enough!!??!?!? 20 years ago it was 30 yards with a bow & 100 yard shots with shotgun. Now it’s 50+ with a bow & 250-300 yards with straight wall. Which - fine….. but we also added to the seasons vs reducing. Increased quotas most the time vs reducing. We never dial things back. It’s always “more more more” - weapons or killing. & then folks don’t understand why access is incredibly hard & why everything is getting tied up + new hunters quitting. It’s glaringly obvious.
BTW: KS is 10% forested. 5.2 million acres & vastly less for hunter density. LINK TO CLICK: https://www.kansasforests.org/discover_kansas_forests/index.html#:~:text=There are 5.2 million acres,the state's total land area
**there is some data with KS having a lower % of timber but with any set of data- the total amount of acres of forest is more than IA.
Here’s some forested acres by state data:
States With Most Forest Acres: 2024 List
We have listed the states from most to least forested acres. We have also included the percentage of acres forested & per capita.
Iowa is <8% - doesn’t have plains like KS & we are at 2.1-2.9 million acres depending on data source. Kansas, without adding in plains… has 2x+ the amount of timber & less hunters. Iowa is this tiny sliver of land that the whole country wants to flock to. & some that wish to change it- for their own selfish interests. All because……. They ruined the other states!!!!
& look at how MN was once the #1 B&C state …. In 30 short years they went from #1 to …. A total joke & disaster!!
Great discussion! Here is the link where I got the 5%
Per most studies, hunter numbers are down 10-15% compared to what they were 40 years ago. There was a drop off in the early 2000's from the peak in the 80's, and then a slight resurgence around and after 2010 (I believe social media had some to do with this as a "cool" thing to do). But, overall, still down. That being said, I believe some of the intent has been by liberalizing seasons, "we'll attract more hunters with more opportunities". I understand the heart of this, but at the core, I don't believe this is a working model. Hunting attracts Hunters. Pretty plain and simple. I bet there are 1000 more / different opportunities for people to do things than in the 1980's...and those things are vying for attention. And, they are getting that attention.
Another change in land between now and the 1980's...we now understand it as a business and / or investment. Historically, it was used as a means to support your family. Now, production is a science and we also have major corporations and individuals who purchase as an investment. This is a HUGE topic, that a platform like this cannot do justice. However, this ripple affect this has had on access, is now also being felt.
You are correct...Whitetail hunters across the country DO want to flock to Iowa to hunt. NO denying that at all!! As someone with 3 pref points for Iowa, the draw system there is EXACTLY what you need to keep us OOS yahoos limited! Now...If you could only get rid of those "governer's tags"
There is a lot that can be talked about with Minnesota...One thing I would immediately point out....Firearms season falls directly in the rut
See- that right there is the crap states need to fix. KANSAS should reduce NR quotas TO THE POINT THAT RESIDENTS HAVE REASONABLE ACCESS TO QUALITY HUNTING LAND. When they have that…. Add NR tags on top of it.
& again…. KANSAS resident hunters are actually being punished by all the other states that have RUINED their hunting & sent their residents packing on trips to find quality hunting!!!
hesseu
Well-Known Member
Missouri....where we have no quota's and 1/2 of Mississippi and 1/2 of Louisiana moves to during the first 2 weeks of November!! Super frustrating.