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Help with Scope!

SWIADEERHNTR

SWIADEERHNTR

Come 'on Next Season....
Hey, I'm looking to buy my first muzzleloader this year. I've got the gun picked out that I'd like. I've held a bunch in the stores and tried a buddies out hunting last year. My question is the scope.

It seems there aren't many muzzleloader scopes out there. I know there are specific scopes for shotguns vs. rifles from the shock/loads that are different. But are scopes for muzzleloaders the same as rifles? I have found a few scopes that specifically say "black powder" or muzzleloader like the Nikon Omega Muzzleloader scope so I wasn't sure. But the amount of rifle scopes to "black powder" scopes is like 20:1 from what I can find. Are there just not many muzzleloader scopes to choose from or does the name not matter and I can use any rifle scope?

Thanks for your help!!!
 
From what I understand of the "muzzleloader" scopes, they are calibrated to compensate for holdover (bullet drop compensator), but are limited by being calibrated to a specific powder charge and bullet weight. If that load doesn't work for your particular rifle, then it is basically useless as far as the distance/hold-over calibrations. I'm not a muzzleloader (yet), so any others with more precise info please chime in and correct me if I'm wrong. A good rifle scope (tons of experience with) will work just fine and you will be able to sight it in directly and specifically to your load, just as if you were re-zeroing it to a different bullet weight/style/powder charge in a rifle. You can get some real good quality scopes without breaking the bank. Nikon, Burris, Leupold, and Vortex are all really good quality rifle scopes at easy-on-the-wallet prices (Leupod VX-I and VX-II) and they will give you great low-light views. I have Zeiss scopes on two of my rifles and love them, but I don't think I can afford a 3rd one with 2 kids running around (not sure how I got the 1st two with only 1 kid at the time), so I'll probably be looking into a Vortex. They are gaining in popularity out here as being pretty much Swarovski/Zeiss quality at a fraction of the price. And there warranty is phenomenal. I know I've seen others on here swear up and down by Nikon, Burris, and Leupold rifle scopes on their MLs and I'm sure they will chime in. Always remember, when it comes to scopes, the rifle is really only as good as the glass you put on top of it; but above are some great scopes that won't break the bank. Good luck!
 
I know there are specific scopes for shotguns vs. rifles from the shock/loads that are different.
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Any "rifle" scope worth anything at all will handle recoil from any shotgun, rifle, or muzzleloader. That's not the reasoning why they are called M/L, or shotgun, or rifle scopes. The difference is in the parallax setting. Most rifle scopes are parallax set at 100 yards while shotgun and rifle scopes are 50 or 75. Then of course, if you get a scope with adjustable objective, you don't have that to deal with.
Since today's modern long range muzzleloaders are shooting 200 yards, a "rifle scope is actually better suited to the task than others.
As mentioned above, those M/L scopes that have the different yardage reticals work great and there's several mfg's that offer them. Unfortunately, you are married to a certain load and bullet. Not a good thing in my opinion.
Get a good "rifle" scope with a normal retical, learn how your gun shoots and have at it.

As a side note while talking scopes, never put a rifle, shotgun, or M/L scope on an air rifle. They will self destruct. Always use a scope designed for air rifles. Although all BSA scopes are designed for either.
 
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Don't forget to put quality RINGS on it. That is something that gets overlooked a lot, and that is where a lot of hard to diagnose problems can occur.
 
i must be wrong in my thinking.I always heard that the concussion from a ML is different than that of a rifle or shotgun and would ruin the recticles if a rifle scope was used on a ML.Learn something new every day.But I don't own a rifle or ML so I would have no reason for knowing.
 
JakeWym said:
Don't forget to put quality RINGS on it. That is something that gets overlooked a lot, and that is where a lot of hard to diagnose problems can occur.
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Another good piece of advice, along with the same quality of bases. And use the "blue" loc-tite to screw the bases on and the rings shut. Just a dab on the first couple of lines of threads. That will help hold them tight and keep them from coming loose. A friend of mine's son missed deer 13 times a few years ago and it wasn't until they got back to camp that they realized the screws came loose. Don't use the red loc-tite or you'll never get them back out if you want to switch.
 
archery95 said:
i must be wrong in my thinking.I always heard that the concussion from a ML is different than that of a rifle or shotgun and would ruin the recticles if a rifle scope was used on a ML.Learn something new every day.But I don't own a rifle or ML so I would have no reason for knowing.
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no, you are not wrong in your thinking, I have heard that too. I am a novice ML for sure, but I have read such things, and have a friend that had an interesting experience that might be pertinent to the discussion: He is a hardcore hunter, and has been a BP enthusiast for years. He bought a new muzzleloader a couple of years ago, and put a high end rifle scope on it. He could not get the thing to shoot well. He tried different loads, powder charges, ect, but it wouldn't shoot consistent groups. Finally, he tried changing over to a scope made specifically for muzzle loaders. The weapon shot perfectly. I would have thought that it was just a bad scope, but he put the same scope (mounts, ect) on a high powered rifle later on, and it shot fine...go figure right.

My father and I both use shotgun scopes on our smoke poles, and have had no trouble at all with them. Just make sure you get one that you will be happy with in the field. Hope this helps.
 
Have 2 Knights at home with regular rifle scopes on them...One is a Burris Fullfield II, the other a Nikon ProStaff. Both ML/scope combos probably have close to 100 rounds fired, no problems yet.
Have another Knight, that had a ProStaff on top, now has the Leupold Ultimate Slam scope, no problems either way, even with magnum loads.
 
no, you are not wrong in your thinking, I have heard that too. I am a novice ML for sure, but I have read such things, and have a friend that had an interesting experience that might be pertinent to the discussion: He is a hardcore hunter, and has been a BP enthusiast for years. He bought a new muzzleloader a couple of years ago, and put a high end rifle scope on it. He could not get the thing to shoot well. He tried different loads, powder charges, ect, but it wouldn't shoot consistent groups. Finally, he tried changing over to a scope made specifically for muzzle loaders. The weapon shot perfectly. I would have thought that it was just a bad scope, but he put the same scope (mounts, ect) on a high powered rifle later on, and it shot fine...go figure right.
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Your buddy had load issues, not scope. Could of even been the mount or rings weren't tight. Recoil has absolutely nothing to do with it unless it's an air rifle.
 
Shovelbuck said:
Your buddy had load issues, not scope. Could of even been the mount or rings weren't tight. Recoil has absolutely nothing to do with it unless it's an air rifle.
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I'm with Shovel on this one. Most decent- to high-quality scopes are intended to handle the recoil/shock/concussion from the high end magnums and ultra-magnums, icluding a .416 Rigby. I'm guessing there were some mounting issues with the bases or rings not being secured properly.
 
Shovelbuck said:
Your buddy had load issues, not scope. Could of even been the mount or rings weren't tight. Recoil has absolutely nothing to do with it unless it's an air rifle.
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I figured at least one person would argue with me :) Im not saying that it couldn't have been some other factor, but i highly doubt it was the load. He was using the same bullet, and the same powder charge (he uses pellets, and never changed what he was shooting) with the same 209 primer cap. As for the mounts and rings, I Know they weren't defective, because they worked on another weapon. And knowing my friend the way I do, I would be surprised to find that he hadn't installed everything correctly on the gun. He is a stickler to detail. Anyway, I was just sharing an experience with someone who was looking for advice. I personally have had good luck with shotgun scopes for muzzleloading, and will stick with them until I have some issue.
 
I'm not arguing with you, simply stating facts. I made my living for seven years helping people with scope issues and have answered about every tech question you can imagine. I've spoken with every major scope manufacturer tech team there is. The answer is always the same. Recoil is not a factor unless it's an air rifle.
Welcome to the site.
 
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Well, I did get my new muzzleloader last year but I wan't able to fork the cash over for a scope. I'm hoping I'll be able to get one this year.

From my original post here, several stated a good set of rings was important. Can anyone recommend a "good" set (brand or model etc) and which ones to stay away from?

Does anyone have good or bad experiences with the two separate rings vs. a 1piece base with integrated rings?

Thanks for the help!
 
SWIADEERHNTR said:
From my original post here, several stated a good set of rings was important. Can anyone recommend a "good" set (brand or model etc)
Thanks for the help!
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Weaver Grand Slam rings are a very high quality ring.
You didn't say what ML you bought, but if you bought a TC Omega or Encore, TC makes a good quality 'Weaver Style' base too.

This is a good thread with good info.....I've never understood people who spend tons of money on clothes, stands and even their guns only to put cheap, low quality scopes/rings/bases on their guns. You can have the best quality everything else there is, but if you have a crappy sighting system, you aren't going to hit squat!

Edit- A lot of rings (including the Grand Slam) come in Low, Medium, High, X-high, etc which is the height it will put your scope above the barrel. It may take some time at a good shop with your particular scope to figure out what height you need. The rings need to be high enough to put your objective reticle & caps above the barrel, but not so high that you have to have your head raised too far to see in the scope properly.
 
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SWIADEERHNTR said:
Well, I did get my new muzzleloader last year but I wan't able to fork the cash over for a scope. I'm hoping I'll be able to get one this year.

From my original post here, several stated a good set of rings was important. Can anyone recommend a "good" set (brand or model etc) and which ones to stay away from?

Does anyone have good or bad experiences with the two separate rings vs. a 1piece base with integrated rings?

Thanks for the help!
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I have always used Leupold Dual Dove Tail bases and rings on my rifles. The rings lock in tight into the bases and don't move. I prefer the dual bases because I don't like the 1 piece base covering my bolt, but that's not an issue with MLs. I also don't like the standard Leupold 2-piece base system because I want more than a windage screw holding the rear ring of my scope (Dual Dove Tail all the way). There are several good 1-piece bases out there and good rings to put on them. Most of it will come down to personal preference. You typically can't go wrong with Burris, Leupold, Weaver, or Warne bases/rings. I see Talley makes a 1-piece integrated system (you are referring to?), but I know nothing about those. Whatever you go with, I'll emphasize again, the use of blue Loc-Tite to secure ALL screws in place. The biggest problem with sighting issues tied to rings/bases is due to 1 or more screws coming loose, at least in my experience. Good luck!
 
Depending on your powder charge and grain of bullet you will be using, muzzleloaders can have a pretty drastic kick (not saying that rifles or shotguns can't). One thing I have looked for in muzzy scopes is eye relief. I've had a couple lower end scopes with not much for eye relief and I have a scar between my eyes to prove it. Nothing quite like missing a dear and then blood starts running down your face.....
I currently have the nikon omega mounted on my knight and the eye relief of that scope is amazing! I agree (to an extent) with those that say the reticled scopes are made for a certain load. However, if you learn enough about them and practice, the reticles can be used with nearly any load. You may end up finding that your particular load isnt going to shoot at the exact center of each reticle, so find out where it does shoot and make a note.

Good luck!
 
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