Looking for plot ideas/help!!

[Doubleaarc hery]

Okay Iowawhitetail experts!! Time to break in a rookie! I know it is pry early to start talking about this, but as a friend and I discussed, it is a "year long obsession"


I haven't posted much in this section about plotting because I don't know anything, but am doing a lot of research! and a lot of reading!! Big Rack Trophy Products has talked to me several times about their plot mixes and I was wondering if anyone else has used them!



I have never done plots before and this year I have two really nice areas I am planning to plant! So I am looking for advice!

The fields I am planning to plat are currently used periodically as bedding for the deer, it has been CRP for about 7 years now! One field is a small triangle that is flat with high traffic and is about 1 acre! This is in the middle of a travel route they use every morning for what I have seen!

The other is a large domed field! The center is high and it has a slight slope in all directions but a nice flat long top! The field is about 200 or so yards long and about 75 yards across with timber on all sides and an opening on the North east end that is only about 10 yards wide!

So here is the question. If you were brand new and were going to plot this how would you go about doing it! What would you plant and where! Would you plant different stuff in the large field?




I am open to all suggestions and my farmer is going to(don't slaughter me, this is all new to me) chisel plow the fields and then Plant for me!?!? Something about drilling and planting the seed that way??? Hell I didn't have a clue! I just nodded like I knew what he was talking about! Is that what I want him to do? HELP!!!



Here is a quick little map to show you roughly where the plots are planned! If you need more info let me know!

Thanks for all the help! Should be fun to hear the ideas!!!!!!!

 

[wegner36]

since your post has sat here so lonely for so long doubleA i thought i would give you my limited knowledge on plots.

it really matters when and what you want to do with the plots.

if it is to hunt off of there are a ton of different clovers/brassicas out there that you can put in for the fall and bow hunt

if you want to head in late season, and if the year is like the one we have now- snow, semi cold(lets hope it hangs on!!) tough for the deer to "dig" for food, plant some beans and corn in some spots too, that should really draw them in when it is late in the season and bitter cold (in other words my paradise!)

to help produce herd health/ antler growth i believe you would want to plant in the beggining of the summer so the bucks can get nutrients when they are putting on the bone.

these are also just my "rookie" thoughts, i will be doing a little more plotting this next season, i spose between the two of us swapping results we will figure something out!!!

if some of you more knowledgeable guys out there read this and observe one of my thoughts and believe it is a misconception i would be glad if you relieved me of my ignorance, cause i have too much as it is!

 

[dbltree]

You have a couple great spots there but because they are "hidden" they will get hammered hard. That being the case I would say that the typical corn or soybean crop ideas would be out.

I good thing to start with is a fall grain combination of oats and rye planted in very late August or early September. It's inexpensive to plant and perfect for the beginner. Great draw all fall and winter.

You can then frost seed some clover into part of it the following winter and begin a clover/grain rotation.

Check out all the pros and cons of different types of foodplots here: Food Plot Links

Here's an idea what a chisel plow looks like...very rough "plowing" job that needs to be disced down before planting.

 

[risto2351]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbltree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You can then frost seed some clover into part of it the following winter and begin a clover/grain rotation.</div></div>

Dbl. I have a stupid one for you. When you say following winter do you mean that Feb./ March or the following year.

Now when you mean rotation do you do it every year or when the clover seems to die out. Reason being I thought clover lasted two to three years?

Thanks and hope you are having a great hunting season.

 

[Doubleaarc hery]

Excellent stuff!! Plotting is quite the task, and I am eager to learn! From reading and pictures I agree that a Rye/oats/AWP is an awesome combo! I can mix them all and plant correct?

And from the excellent pictures am I safe to say that in that plot I wouldn't have to do much(or any) maintenance the first fall?

Assuming I plant the larger field in The above mentioned combo.. How soon would you guys kill off the current CRP? If my farmer chisle plows and discs from me, he will have to do it before he plants his fields! Access is going to be EXTREMELY limited for me once he plants!

1. so should I Round up the field this spring and disc?

2. do you continue to round up the field until Fall planting?

3. Will it be bothersome to the herd to have it empty all summer? If I plant something for spring I will not have any access for a larger tractor to redo(Wording?) the plot!!


Thanks for the help guys!! I can't believe how excited I am to try this!! And I am already assuming I will screw something major up and piss the time and money down the drain!! But it is going to be a good learning experience for a city boy!!

 

[petherss]

DoubleA- Maybe I missed it, but what is going to be planted in the Ag field that surround that timber? It looks to me like there are some pretty good fields all around you. If they are in corn/soys, I would go a different direction. Plus, Like DBL says, a smaller plot of corn/soys will get wiped out before you can hunt over them anyways. If it were my place, I would set aside that triangle piece for late season hunting (ie brassicas). Brassicas are almost fool proof. They'll grow in darn near anything and you can pretty much throw and they'll grow. If your deer herd likes brassicas (I've seen deer that won't touch the stuff- then 4 miles away, a deer herd can't get enough), it's amazing to see how hard they can hit a field in December/January.

The other plot I would go with something that is low maintenance (sort of). If the surrounding fields are in corn or soys, I would go with a grain combo of rye and oats. But like DBL says, don't plant too early! I made the mistake this year of planting a mix of rye/oats/alfalfa/clover in early August next to my brassicas. Everything did great- but the rye/oats headed out and choked out my great looking alfalfa. Maybe split that domed field into rye/oats in early September and plant your alfalfa in early August? You would have a killer setup IMO. Oh yeah, planting in late fall also gives you atleast 2 good opportunities to nuke that field over the summer. Which in your case since it's been in CRP for that long, is going to be a must. Good Luck!!!

BC

 

[Doubleaarc hery]

BC

This year all of the fields surrounding were corn with the exception of one large field to the south! I know nothing about crops or crop rotation, but was figuring it will be beans next year. I am going to talk with the farmer this weekend and see if he knows what he will be planting!

So can I mix the oats and rye together? Or should I separate those into different plots? I read in Dbltrees other posts that thes AWPs are like deer candy! I like that idea!! Can you just mix those in as well?

And here is another dumb question! Can I nuke the field, Disc it and then nuke it again while it is all disced before planting?

When planting oats/rye, do you just seed it then drag the top to try to get the seed under the ground? Or does it take alot more than that!!

Now I am off to read about Barassica!! Hopefully I can get my mowing/maintaining questions about that answered from previous threads!!

Sorry if these questions are way off base, but I never dreamed of trying this! And this site's information is about the only reason I am giving it a shot!!!


Thanks

 

[petherss]

Dbltree is really the expert on this stuff. I've only being doing this for about 3 years. But past flops (and a few success stories) have taught me a few things. This year I planted the oats and rye together. Honestly, they both came in so thick (i put down way too much seed) I couldn't tell the difference between the two. I thought I was using them as a cover crop for my clover and alfalfa- which it was for awhile. But I planted the rye WAY too early and it got out of control quick.

As far as the crop rotation, I was under the same assumption as you are (I am not a farmer or come from a farming family). I thought corn this year, soys next, corn the next. I talked to a local farmer who told me they go 2-3 years in corn and then rotate out due to some bug that will eat the roots of the corn?? So, i would definitely talk to your farmer and find out. I would think if they have 50 acres of corn to eat, why would they hang out in your 2 acre (or whatever it is) plot? I would give them something they can't get in the immediate area. I sounds like alfalfa and grains would be a killer idea there. Plus, I've seen the proof that they love the stuff. Also, the deer up here are demolishing my brassicas. Once you get into December/January, it must taste like candy to them. From the sounds of it, alfalfa is a big draw late in the year too (from DBLtree's accounts). I wouldn't know, my alflafa is buried under a foot of matted down rye/oats.

From what I know, spraying bare ground with roundup or whatever knock-off you can get your hands on is a waste of money. it has to make contact with the leaf of whatever you're trying to kill. Oh yeah, one more thing, don't brush hog and then immediately spray herbicide. Learned that the hard way. The plant has to be actively growing. Brush hog and wait a week or so to be sure the weeds are growing again. phew....hope this helps!

BC

 

[Doubleaarc hery]

Thanks BC!! Lots of good stuff there!! We will see what comes of this tonight, I am sure I will have more questions tomorrow!!!

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: risto2351</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbltree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You can then frost seed some clover into part of it the following winter and begin a clover/grain rotation.</div></div>

When you say following winter do you mean that Feb./ March or the following year.

Now when you mean rotation do you do it every year or when the clover seems to die out. Reason being I thought clover lasted two to three years?

Thanks and hope you are having a great hunting season. </div></div>

I'm saying plant the cereal grains in Sept. then the immediate following Feb/March...frost seed clover into part of the rye/wheat. Clip the grains off (or not) the next summer but either way the grain is a one shot deal that you adding clover too.

As for rotation...

Example.

3 acres...start with all grains (remember this is just an example /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif )

Frost seed clover into one acre of the original 3 acres that same winter (frost seed right into the rye/wheat)

the next summer till 2 acres and plant 2 acres of grains and frost seed one acre to clover (repeat process)so the spring of thrid year you have 1 (2 year old acre of clover) 1 new clover seeding and 1 to plant to grains...

Clover can last 3 to 5 years with good care but as it wears out one can follow it with high nitrogen users like brassicas and grains.

So...don't plant the whole place to clover all at once...plant a portion every year so that as it needs replacing you can utilize the nitrogen left behind when you till it under. Same principal that farmers use with a corn/soybean rotation.

Rotation breaks up disease/insect cycles and makes use of nitrogen produced by legumes such as alfalfa, clover, beans and peas.

Make sense? /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif (if not..see me after class! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif )

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Assuming I plant the larger field in The above mentioned combo.. How soon would you guys kill off the current CRP? If my farmer chisle plows and discs from me, he will have to do it before he plants his fields! Access is going to be EXTREMELY limited for me once he plants!

1. so should I Round up the field this spring and disc?

2. do you continue to round up the field until Fall planting?

3. Will it be bothersome to the herd to have it empty all summer? If I plant something for spring I will not have any access for a larger tractor to redo(Wording?) the plot!!
</div></div>

Roundup takes 3-7 days to get a good kill (longer is better) so you will need to spray ASAP after greenup to get it killed ahead of the farmers available time slot.

Your situation may be somewhat difficult if you cannot get him back out in the summer to re-till the field. No sense tilling it and not planting it...

Normally on sod I would suggest planting Roundup Ready soybeans...perfect to plant on sod and can even be no-tilled. In your case I'm afraid they would be hammered to death in your hidden fields but they would leave a perfect seedbed to frost seed clover into and even broadcast rye into that same year.

I'm a little concerned about the chisel plow/clover seeding scenario...you need a very well tilled and packed seedbed for clover and typically most farmers that deal with corn and soybeans don't till it that well.

If he has a cultimulcher or something along that line then he can fit it down real nice for clover.

here's a smaller one but few farmers use one anymore unless they also plant alfalfa or grains.

Perhaps he has the equipment to help you get a spring clover seeding in...but then what? If you can't get him back in late summer what are your plans to get grains or brassicas planted?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what the possibles are?

No need to worry about "the herd" either way...deer are browsers and they should be doing just fine on natural browse in the area. Whatever you plant is just "candy" /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Normally I would plant buckwheat on an area to be re-tilled later in the summer but if you can't get him back in there...now you see why once bitten with the "foodplot" addiction you simply must buy a tractor! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can I nuke the field, Disc it and then nuke it again while it is all disced before planting?

When planting oats/rye, do you just seed it then drag the top to try to get the seed under the ground? Or does it take alot more than that!!
</div></div>

I think your spraying ? was already answered but...Roundup is only useful on actively growing plants...so no use spraying it on tilled soil and you want to spray enough ahead so that the plant has time to absorb it aand die before tilling.

Rye/wheat/oats are easy...disc and broadcast seed then lightly drag (preferably use a cultipacker) into the soil. They don't need a fine seed bed like clover...easy as pie! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Flip back a page for answers about rotation..

 

[petherss]

I was just thinking about everything I did last year to get my plot looking good. It was a blast, but a little work and probably more $ than it should have been. Having said that, in DBL A's situation where he has a fallow field and has to rely on a farmer to get it done in a short window of time- plus not having (I'm assuming)the toys himself to get all the work done....here is what I would do atleast the first year:

1) take a soil test asap so you know what fertilizer/lime you need
2) Ask the farmer to brush hog and spray both spots (2-3 times that first year in preparation for a fall planting of your choice.
3) have the farmer rip, disc, lime and fertilize, plant whatever you want

Like I say, I'm no farmer but I'm trying to think what farmers are doing in late August and late September. I'm sure they are busy as a one legged man in an arse kicking contest but atleast they aren't planting corn/soys like they are in spring and the corn isn't even all brown by then I don't think. The farmer might have a little more time to spend with you in that time frame?? Then in the meantime I would be looking for an inexpensive workhorse of a tractor and some solid implements so that next you can do whatever you want on your time.

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">here is what I would do atleast the first year:

1) take a soil test asap so you know what fertilizer/lime you need
2) Ask the farmer to brush hog and spray both spots (2-3 times that first year in preparation for a fall planting of your choice.
3) have the farmer rip, disc, lime and fertilize, plant whatever you want

</div></div>

I would agree in principal at least...assuming he can get the farmer to do it in late summer he would be much better off then spring.

Here's another possible...

burn the plots this spring/early summer and spray the regrowth with Roundup (wouldn't need equipment or the farmer either one)

Have him work it for you in late August and plant it to rye/wheat/oats add some AWP's if you choose.

Then frost seed clover in any of it that he chooses too late the next winter.

You can spray with a backpack sprayer or rent/borrow an ATV sprayer to apply the Roundup and avoid "bothering" the farmer.

Summer/fall is usually better to avoid a "wet spring" scenario also.

 

[risto2351]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbltree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Make sense? /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif (if not..see me after class! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif ) </div></div>

Ahhhh maybe we can continue this after class session at my place
after deer season. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

[turkeyriver]

A lot of good ideas here. I'm a farmer and a food plotter with quite a bit of experience. I have dealt with your exact situation several times. Here's what has worked best. Wait until your sod has really greened up, probably May 10 or even a little later. Spray a strong rate of R'up on a warm day. Then go fishing till Memorial Day. Everthing around your sprayed areas should be very lush and green by then. BURN that dead grass off.Forget that chisel plow unless your farmer friend wants to make a lot of trips to level things back down. Any tillage will increase weed pressure manyfold. Now, no-till beans into that burned sod. It won't take a real special planter to plant into this trash free seedbed. Yes, the deer will hammer these beans all summer. They may not even get a foot tall. That's okay! I'm assuming you plant RR beans. Spray these beans a couple times during the summer to get any weeds or grass that show up. Around Aug. 15, when it looks like rain,broadcast winter rye, clover, brassicas, whatever; into these short beans and pray for rain. This has worked much better than tillage for me. Make sure you do the BURN. If you plant into that dead grass mulch, there is a host of bugs and worms that will not let your beans get out of the ground. Burning seems to take care of that problem. The only thing you don't get with this is winter feed like corn would be.But, the winter rye is great for spring turkey and the rye can be clipped off before heading out to let your clover get going.Now, in subsequent years, you can spray, till, and plant anything you want to get your rotation going. If you insist on chisel plowing, make damn sure you have a good R'up kill on that grass first. I doubt if your farmer wants to get his tillage equipment out in Late May or June. I can't emphasize enough. Early spring tillage on that grass sod will come back to haunt you a long time!!!! Any ?s let me know.

 

[Doubleaarc hery]

You guys are excellent!! They should teach this stuff in school!

I have located a sprayer for my 4 wheeler and am getting a lot of good ideas here! I think I may have a possibility of getting in with a smaller tractor now, but talked to the wife who said no immediately on the toy! But already got a friend in the area with a small tractor on board! So I think I have eliminated a few problems! This is starting to come together! Just a couple more Dumby questions

When you all use the term burn..... are we talking about A weed killer or are we talking Fire?

And Maybe I just missed this, and maybe I am wrong, but I Should Mow the entire CRP before spraying the fields right?


Turkey,

If I go with the early beans as you suggested, when would you put the "plant the beans"? Do you wait a bit after burning or do you get them in there right away? Will the Rye/Oat still grow as well if the whole field is beans and I just seed them in?

Again, you guys are great!! I am really looking forward to taking pictures of these fields through the spring/summer/fall!!!

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turkeyriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A lot of good ideas here. I'm a farmer and a food plotter with quite a bit of experience. I have dealt with your exact situation several times. Here's what has worked best. Wait until your sod has really greened up, probably May 10 or even a little later. Spray a strong rate of R'up on a warm day. Then go fishing till Memorial Day. Everthing around your sprayed areas should be very lush and green by then. BURN that dead grass off.Forget that chisel plow unless your farmer friend wants to make a lot of trips to level things back down. Any tillage will increase weed pressure manyfold. Now, no-till beans into that burned sod. It won't take a real special planter to plant into this trash free seedbed. Yes, the deer will hammer these beans all summer. They may not even get a foot tall. That's okay! I'm assuming you plant RR beans. Spray these beans a couple times during the summer to get any weeds or grass that show up. Around Aug. 15, when it looks like rain,broadcast winter rye, clover, brassicas, whatever; into these short beans and pray for rain. This has worked much better than tillage for me. Make sure you do the BURN. If you plant into that dead grass mulch, there is a host of bugs and worms that will not let your beans get out of the ground. Burning seems to take care of that problem. The only thing you don't get with this is winter feed like corn would be.But, the winter rye is great for spring turkey and the rye can be clipped off before heading out to let your clover get going.Now, in subsequent years, you can spray, till, and plant anything you want to get your rotation going. If you insist on chisel plowing, make damn sure you have a good R'up kill on that grass first. I doubt if your farmer wants to get his tillage equipment out in Late May or June. I can't emphasize enough. Early spring tillage on that grass sod will come back to haunt you a long time!!!! Any ?s let me know. </div></div>

No question in most cases that's pretty much a perfect plan. Just be aware that they may grub the soybeans right to the ground, although it still might be the best bet.

Most likely the farmer has a no-till bean drill/planter that would do the trick but for others reading this thread with interest...I use my old JD 7000 no-till corn/bean planter and just plant it twice for narrow rows that will provide some canopy (to supress weeds after being sprayed with RUP)

My deer density is so high that my soys never got over a few inches high this past summer! 6 acres no less! A hidden field though which concentrates deer in a "safe area" (which is the whole idea of course)

Even brassicas can be overseeded into the RR soys if you have decent moisture (late July to mid August) and rye/oats later in late August. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[turkeyriver]

Actually, the correct term for a herbicide kill is "burndown". This just means turning green plants to dead brown. Some guys slang this term to just "burn". When I say BURN, I mean matches and lots of smoke. Mowing all of that dead brome grass off in April would be OK, but in my experience not necessary for a spring spray. If you were spraying in the fall, mowing would be critical.I would plant those beans as soon after the smoke clears as possible. The real risk with this plan is lack of rain after you plant the beans and lack of rain after you broadcast the winter rye and clover in Aug. With all of the rain we had this year in Aug. I had six inch rye in six weeks, with deer hitting it hard. If for some reason there aren't enough deer to keep your beans from covering the ground, your rye planting would suffer somewhat,and you might skip the rye altogether, but you wouldn't need the rye so much if the beans are that good. Then I would hold off on the clover until the next March and frost seed.

 

[turkeyriver]

One more point. When you plant beans this late in the year, a month after the farmers are done, deer will hit them harder during the summer. All the surrounding farmers' beans will be maturing earlier than yours and turning brown and woody. The deer will flock to eat your greener, later planted, beans. Great for scouting. They will stay greener later into the fall and be a better draw. That's why if you have a big enough field that the deer don't eat to the groud, like dbltree's do, you could maybe skip the rye stage.

 

[risto2351]

Just wondering for Andy's sake here (Don't want him to burn himself with a fire) Just looking out for you Andy. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
I have not picked on you about the opossum but I am sure you do not want to be in another legend's forum.

Could he get the area brush hogged by the farmer?
Spray the Roundup. Have the farmer chisel plow it and disk it up to smooth it out.

He can plant it then or wait until fall and if there is a lot of weeds nuke them again and run a harrow/rake over it with an ATV. Or just run a harrow/rake over it if there are not many weeds with the ATV to break it up, plant it and cultipack it down.

The more work his farmer can do for him would be a great asset to him. It will get to be a very long weekend hauling the equipment around.
That way the first scenario with a cereal grain and clover can be used.
Just my .02