dbltree
Super Moderator
It does...but there is nothing in the "books" (rules) that NRCS has to allow for frost seeding so they go with what they have even if it's wrong.
The farm where I live has never had any natives brought in and there are now natives spreading everywhere...how and why??
They spread by wind blown seed just as nature intended and the seed lies on the ground thru the winter months until freezing/thawing action along with late winter snows/rains help it make seed contact.
Why fight Mother Nature? Sow it the natural way and it will do great! :way:
luv2hunt1469
Member
TomT or Double,
How did you manage to get rid of all the little trees on that piece you prepared for the native grasses. I have some similar areas of older CRP that are brome and filled with smaller trees like that. I hate to brush hog them, as that leaves little "tire gougers" everywhere from where the trees were cut. I understand how to kill the grass, killing the trees and removing any sharp little stumps is another story. Thanks
How did you manage to get rid of all the little trees on that piece you prepared for the native grasses. I have some similar areas of older CRP that are brome and filled with smaller trees like that. I hate to brush hog them, as that leaves little "tire gougers" everywhere from where the trees were cut. I understand how to kill the grass, killing the trees and removing any sharp little stumps is another story. Thanks
letemgrow
PMA Member
That is the reason I do not like the government contracts...I swear the people that make some of the rules on brush cutting, seedings, crp, seedlings etc seem to make things more difficult at times to get stuff done.
Some deals are great they have tho. :way:
Daver
PMA Member
It depends...
I had 90 acres of CRP that was almost as much scrub cedars and oaks as it was brome. I did have it mowed/brush hogged about 3 1/2 years ago and from there it has been a process to eliminate all of the "shrapnel"
.
The work is still not 100% complete, but I have removed an awful lot of leftover stumps and so forth by hand over time. I have cut them off at ground level with a chainsaw in some cases, I have chopped them out of the ground with an axe, I have had a farmer disc up an area and then gone back over it with a drag to clear out the stubborn ones, I have had controlled burns, etc.
Most of the non-cedar stumps either rotted away by now or resprouted into oak clumps, etc. The cedar stumps have barely begun to rot over three years later and I still need to be careful in certain spots. I guess I don't have an easy solution to the problem of removing the stumps, especially the cedar ones.
I had 90 acres of CRP that was almost as much scrub cedars and oaks as it was brome. I did have it mowed/brush hogged about 3 1/2 years ago and from there it has been a process to eliminate all of the "shrapnel"
. The work is still not 100% complete, but I have removed an awful lot of leftover stumps and so forth by hand over time. I have cut them off at ground level with a chainsaw in some cases, I have chopped them out of the ground with an axe, I have had a farmer disc up an area and then gone back over it with a drag to clear out the stubborn ones, I have had controlled burns, etc.
Most of the non-cedar stumps either rotted away by now or resprouted into oak clumps, etc. The cedar stumps have barely begun to rot over three years later and I still need to be careful in certain spots. I guess I don't have an easy solution to the problem of removing the stumps, especially the cedar ones.
dbltree
Super Moderator
That's really the best bet to control invasives, to burn every couple years which will kill most red cedars and doing so will keep them from getting large enough leave problem stumps.
Once they have already reached that point it can require hooking onto them with a chain and pulling them out depending on the size of them or hiring a dozer with a root hook.
I use burning as my main tool in my NWSG and then there is no concerns about running over stumps because there is no need for a tractor in the field in the first place....
Luv to hunt,
I wish I could tell you of a great solution, sorry.
I brush hogged and chain sawed. Left a lot of "pungy" sticks, but the brushog does sort of tear them up into not so sharp of projections and I never did get a flat tire yet. The bigger tree stumpage that I hit with a chain saw I just cut as low as I could. Did dull a lot of chains though in the process. I also ran over the ground with my 15' digger leveling the ground and this helped tear a lot of the little shoots out of the ground. Next I disced to level the ground. I did manage to bend my drag into a pretzel as I hooked one of those darn stumps still left standing. I had this attached behind the disc. Dumb lesson learned. The disc will go over all that crap but the front beam on my wheel-less drag got hooked. Guess I got another winter fix up project.
Any of the stumps that did re-grow shoots, I sprayed with Crossbow at about 7 ounces to the gallon and that really killed them dead. It all is a lot of work, but luckily I live on this land and I just do a little every now and then. A good stress reliever when you want to get out of the house !!!!!!!
Good luick with your labor of love..........
Tom
I wish I could tell you of a great solution, sorry.
I brush hogged and chain sawed. Left a lot of "pungy" sticks, but the brushog does sort of tear them up into not so sharp of projections and I never did get a flat tire yet. The bigger tree stumpage that I hit with a chain saw I just cut as low as I could. Did dull a lot of chains though in the process. I also ran over the ground with my 15' digger leveling the ground and this helped tear a lot of the little shoots out of the ground. Next I disced to level the ground. I did manage to bend my drag into a pretzel as I hooked one of those darn stumps still left standing. I had this attached behind the disc. Dumb lesson learned. The disc will go over all that crap but the front beam on my wheel-less drag got hooked. Guess I got another winter fix up project.
Any of the stumps that did re-grow shoots, I sprayed with Crossbow at about 7 ounces to the gallon and that really killed them dead. It all is a lot of work, but luckily I live on this land and I just do a little every now and then. A good stress reliever when you want to get out of the house !!!!!!!
Good luick with your labor of love..........
Tom
IQDM
New Member
Dbltree, what is your feeling on cattails for deer cover? I'm not sure if you have many cattail marshes down by you, but here we have quite a few of them and they seem to be a prefered bedding cover for deer. Kind of like switch grass for wet areas... there is a low area in my marsh that I would like to change into cattails and I figured I would use your switchgrass formula to establish the cattails... mow in summer, spray in fall, frost seed in late winter, spray atrizine in early spring... I was wondering if you knew much about cattails and if they were resistant to atrizine?
dbltree
Super Moderator
Cattails are awesome but we don't have many cattail sloughs down here. Everything is hilly and water just runs off!
I don't know if cattails are resistant to atrazine or not, most wtelands I have seen created, the cattails just seem to appear naturally or you can buy plant shoots.
Great cover but I am no expert on establishing them....
letemgrow
PMA Member
More info and pics on prairie cord grass:
Prairie Cordgrass is of poor foraging value when mature, but can be eaten by domestic and wild animals during its early growth stage in the early spring when the plant is succulent and tender. However, the species can produce forage at a rate of 3,000 to 4,000 pounds per acre. It is sometimes cut for hay, although the ground it grows in is seldom plowed because of its wetness. Prairie Cordgrass also produces good cover for wildlife. It often remains standing in the winter giving the wildlife extra cover and birds a place to nest. Native Americans and early pioneers used the long leaves and stout stems of Prairie Cordgrass for roof thatching to cover dwellings and corncribs.
Prairie Cordgrass is of poor foraging value when mature, but can be eaten by domestic and wild animals during its early growth stage in the early spring when the plant is succulent and tender. However, the species can produce forage at a rate of 3,000 to 4,000 pounds per acre. It is sometimes cut for hay, although the ground it grows in is seldom plowed because of its wetness. Prairie Cordgrass also produces good cover for wildlife. It often remains standing in the winter giving the wildlife extra cover and birds a place to nest. Native Americans and early pioneers used the long leaves and stout stems of Prairie Cordgrass for roof thatching to cover dwellings and corncribs.
IQDM
New Member
thanks alot... I will do some field research then! I'll take some before and after photos and keep you updated. Planning on taking a bunch of cattail heads and pulling all the seeds of and throwing all that fluff into a 5gal. bucket.. then I'll buy one of those native grass broadcast spreaders like you have... if that doesnt work I'll just spread handfulls of the seed all over... (its a smaller area and the seed is free)
Is cattail a native grass? or what is it exactly?
Is cattail a native grass? or what is it exactly?
IQDM
New Member
letemgrow- do you know where I can get prarie cord grass? is that a NWSG like switchgrass but just suited for wetter areas? the area I want to plant is curently like some type of canary grass or something... it is only the first of november and its all laying down already! I want something that is going to be good cover that will stand though most of the winter, and can tolerate a wet area. Its not standing water year round but it is next to a river and in the spring its usually under water until may... then in the summer its dry enough that I can walk through it with regular shoes and not get wet.
letemgrow
PMA Member
Yes it is a NWSG, I would pick it over switch for cover myself. It and switch will be the 2 best to stay standing all winter long over the other NWSG's.
I pick it all along the roadsides in my area this time of year. It is legal to do so in MO for personal use only. I think you would be more pleased with it as opposed to cattails, but it may be different for your area.
Just google search prairie cord grass for sale and you will find it....better have an arm and a leg ready tho.
Also you can buy from Lincoln Oakes Nursery in ND...they sell it by the plug and that strain is probably better suited for your area anyways.
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Preping Ground ???
Dbltree,
Questions for you,
Preping ground for frost seeding a WSG,s mix.
Planted in soybeans this year, sprayed 4 times with gly. Ground is still a little rough as this was a cool season CRP field the previous 10 years, which I worked up and planted the beans in what was still a lot of sod clumps if you know what I mean. The question I have is, could I lightly disc now to level even better or am I better just leaving it undisturbed???
Another question, depending on our snow this winter, whats the ealiest I can frost seed. These fields are low and stay very wet in the spring. I was just thinking if we don't get a lot of snow can I do in Jan. or Feb. or am I better off waiting till the snow is pretty well gone, which last season was around the very end of March.
Thanks, Tom
Dbltree,
Questions for you,
Preping ground for frost seeding a WSG,s mix.
Planted in soybeans this year, sprayed 4 times with gly. Ground is still a little rough as this was a cool season CRP field the previous 10 years, which I worked up and planted the beans in what was still a lot of sod clumps if you know what I mean. The question I have is, could I lightly disc now to level even better or am I better just leaving it undisturbed???
Another question, depending on our snow this winter, whats the ealiest I can frost seed. These fields are low and stay very wet in the spring. I was just thinking if we don't get a lot of snow can I do in Jan. or Feb. or am I better off waiting till the snow is pretty well gone, which last season was around the very end of March.
Thanks, Tom