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Proposal to outlaw PARTY hunting???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DWilk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: POLARIS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You should only be able to fill your own tag. You want to hunt with a group fine, once you shoot a deer your season is over. I know of some large groups that all hunt until they have filled all the tags in their group and it's wrong. </div></div>

Wrong? /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif This a <u>huge</u> contributor to what herd management we have in this state. </div></div>

Maybe....

I know of a local group of party hunters that shot 16 or 17 bucks last year, no does. The two biggest bucks were 130ish and 140ish. All the others were 1.5 year bucks. Is that good herd management?
 
So they passed up does to shoot future giants...that is ridiculous. I know it would be next to impossible, but why not have an antler restriction? Still allow spikes to be shot but leave those little guys alone to develop. Maybe enforce a six-point rule. It would be tricky for party hunters because those young bucks are usually truckin, making it hard to get a judgement, but I guess if it's questionable then leave him be. This kind of law would inevitably allow for more does to be shot and also help trophy management...

Even though I really don't agree with party hunting I can't say that I think any changes need to be made to the regulations. I've party hunted in the past and had some fun doing so. It bothered me seeing so many deer gut and butt and leg shot, which is my biggest issue with it, but this would only get worse if people who've tagged out had to quit.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: -DannyBoy-</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So they passed up does to shoot future giants...that is ridiculous. I know it would be next to impossible, but why not have an antler restriction? Still allow spikes to be shot but leave those little guys alone to develop. Maybe enforce a six-point rule. It would be tricky for party hunters because those young bucks are usually truckin, making it hard to get a judgement, but I guess if it's questionable then leave him be. This kind of law would inevitably allow for more does to be shot and also help trophy management...

Even though I really don't agree with party hunting I can't say that I think any changes need to be made to the regulations. I've party hunted in the past and had some fun doing so. It bothered me seeing so many deer gut and butt and leg shot, which is my biggest issue with it, but this would only get worse if people who've tagged out had to quit. </div></div>

This is done out west with elk and there doesn't seem to be a problem with people identifing a "branch antlered bull" at 400 yards. Granted the antlers are larger and easier to see but it could work with white tails as well.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JNRBRONC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DWilk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: POLARIS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You should only be able to fill your own tag. You want to hunt with a group fine, once you shoot a deer your season is over. I know of some large groups that all hunt until they have filled all the tags in their group and it's wrong. </div></div>

Wrong? /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif This a <u>huge</u> contributor to what herd management we have in this state. </div></div>

Maybe....

I know of a local group of party hunters that shot 16 or 17 bucks last year, no does. The two biggest bucks were 130ish and 140ish. All the others were 1.5 year bucks. Is that good herd management? </div></div>

Ok let me rephrase my statement; it was pretty vague. I was just commenting on the fact that he is against party hunting altogether.

If there was no party hunting, then the numbers of deer harvested throughout the state would drop significantly. Think about it; how successful could a deer drive be organized if half the group isn't able to participate because they have already tagged out?

I was just making a generalized statement on the fact. I'm all for a healthy and controlled deer heard, and I don't condone shooting of a alot of immature bucks either, but some people have different qualifications to make them happy and I won't judge that. I just think outlawing party hunting would be a positive action to take.

If I'm reading correctly, that isn't what they are actually proposing, so it's not a big deal.

I don't want to cause a big stir /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
 
Iowabowtech,

Thanks for your post, which after reading it I think you are right that the DNR is only trying to "clean up" the wording of the existing regulation and not trying to outlaw party hunting.
 
The proposed change does nothing to change party hunting. It basically adds the word "use" to the part that already makes it illegal to have another person's deer license/tag in your possession. So it will read that you can't carry or use someone else's tag. There is quite a bit of abuse of nr bowhunters who didn't get an either sex tag getting an anterless tag and then getting a landowner/outfitter to get a tag to cover the antlered deer they end up shooting.

When CO's come across nr bowhunters with antlerless only deer tags, who have been in the state for a week or more during prime time (late Oct-mid Nov) and haven't been able to fill their tag--sorry--something isn't right.
 
To say group hunting is a form of herd management is a joke at best. To go back to Nachos post, since I spent many years in ND, you can very effectively hunt in a group with the mindset that once you've filled your tag your done. Fill your tag, put your gun away, and drive or bump the tree groves. Put your hunters (with tags) at the funnel points and they fill their own tags. Controlling your doe population, passing on young bucks, taking mature bucks, maximize nutrition, conserve bedding areas,that's herd management. I'm not looking to offend, but I haven't seen many groups party hunting with this in the forefront of their minds when they go out.
 
i have to agree with midwestfood plots, when you have shot yours , your done, if you want to participate in a drive, fine, no weapon though.the reason i say this , is there are large hunting parties in counties where i live(25 -35) hunters in their group. some have shot there deer, they participate in a drive to fill tags, lets say 5- they do a drive & everyone is shooting, & they kill 15, they pick & choose the deer they want. im all for thining the herd , but this isnt hunting, this is a slaughter. people starving all over the world, and most of what they shot is left behind. if the DNR would allow 2 tags per hunter, second being doe only, you could atleast donate the meat, and it wouldnt be illegal because you would proably have the tags to fill them.again , im all for thinning the herd, but ethically, big group hunting just seems to take the sport out of it.i used to hunt with a group, i quit several yrs ago, just wasnt as satisfying as one on one.eaches own i guess.
 
This is a general statement, but all party hunters I know don't care about herd management aka killing does. They kill every deer that runs out even whether it be a 1.5 year old, a doe or a monster. Its hard to judge a deer's age when its running after being kicked out, so putting any sort of antler restriction would just complicate things to no end. Right now party is hunting IS our best numbers management tool, but not herd management. I think what they're wanting more hunters to do is be selectful in their harvests and getting rid of party hunting will help this. At the same time this will increase big buck numbers which in turn will create more leased ground which is another topic of its own...both have pros and cons. Either way, I don't have an opinion on this issue, just trying to shed some light on what I think the DNR is trying to accomplish.

The only downside to it that I can think of is that there is usually a tradition of family and friends doing party hunts...but then again why not have the group sit at a comfy tree or up in a stand?
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When CO's come across nr bowhunters with antlerless only deer tags, who have been in the state for a week or more during prime time (late Oct-mid Nov) and haven't been able to fill their tag--sorry--something isn't right. </div></div>

/forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

I don't reckon changing the wording will really change anything but I figured there ahd to be more to this then what meets th eye.

I've never cared for party hunting but down this way it is slowly dying due to lack of land access. The big groups and drives are dwindling and deer numbers are increasing simply because there are fewer and fewer places to hunt, regardless of "party" hunting.

No way (IMO) that the IDNR is going to do anything that might come across to the Farm Bureau and insurance lobbies as making it more difficult or restrictive to harvest deer.

The NR problem isn't likely to go away either as long as antlerless tags are available.

Just how long does it take to harvest a doe anyway... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
 
midwestfoodplots, last time I checked driving ditches with your truck to push deer, is illegal. You can't use a motor vehicle to help you in anyway.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hoytmossyoak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">midwestfoodplots, last time I checked driving ditches with your truck to push deer, is illegal. You can't use a motor vehicle to help you in anyway.

</div></div>

I think what he meant by drive and push is drivers "walkers" help push "jump deer" to guys that are posted "shooters".
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Right now party is hunting IS our best numbers management tool, but not herd management </div></div>

when the DNR is getting hammered by farm bureau about deer numbers, this all FB is concerned about, large numbers of dead deer. the best tool to harvest large numbers of deer, is the party hunting system. it is the law of the land in iowa, and will never go away.
 
I am a deer hunter, and I hunt in every season, bow, shotgun, muzzelloader. Deer drives are probably my least favorite as I just don't want to get shot. But there is more to the deer drive than just harvesting a deer. To me its about friendship, seeing guys that you haven't seen in a couple of months. Tell stories and reflect on days when we only had one tag in our pocket. IF deer drives are done correctly and you can educate people on only taking mature bucks and leaving the little basket racks alone, it definitely has a huge impact on seeing big bucks in the future.

Last year we didn't even shoot a buck during shot gun season, we did kill 11 does. I don't see the argument of people saying they can't party hunt because they shot immature bucks. They did pay $27 out of their own pocket to kill a deer. These are just uneducated hunters that should be told not to shoot those bucks. But there are still a lot of people that go by the motto "if its brown its down". One man's little deer
is another man's best kill.

SO I don't know how you can regulate deer drives or get rid of them all together. The majority of the deer killed in the state are done on deer drives. You can't argue with the numbers. People pay money to hunt and its their poragative to shoot what they want to shoot. DO I agree with shooting little bucks. I DO NOT. But Some people shoot deer to put food on the table to feed the kids. I know I haven't bought any beef in 5 years, its all deer meat at my house. And with gas at $3.50 a gallon you become less picky when you have to drive an hour to go and hunt.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nannyslayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hoytmossyoak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">midwestfoodplots, last time I checked driving ditches with your truck to push deer, is illegal. You can't use a motor vehicle to help you in anyway.

</div></div>

I think what he meant by drive and push is drivers "walkers" help push "jump deer" to guys that are posted "shooters". </div></div>


Yeah I know what Drivers and Posters are I party hunt all the time. I just read it and the way he worded it made me think that he meant drive with a truck. I don't know why, but it did. I see what he's tryin to say.
 
Im going to throw my 2 cents in, I was having this conversation with a fellow IWer a few months ago.... why does it have to be about the DAMN ANTLERS! Why cant we just go out as a party, hunt most of the day.. then b.s. the rest of the evening. A deer I let walk all yr bow hunting gets shot gun season... damn the luck for me, these guys are out there taking 10-20 does a year also, if they stumble on a nice one, congrats to them, but I usually stumble on a nice one every year or at least see a nice one every year, most of these guys never get a chance at even seeing one.

I hate party hunting but the part doing it with the family keeps me going back every year.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JNRBRONC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DWilk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: POLARIS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You should only be able to fill your own tag. You want to hunt with a group fine, once you shoot a deer your season is over. I know of some large groups that all hunt until they have filled all the tags in their group and it's wrong. </div></div>

Wrong? /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif This a <u>huge</u> contributor to what herd management we have in this state. </div></div>

Maybe....

I know of a local group of party hunters that shot 16 or 17 bucks last year, no does. The two biggest bucks were 130ish and 140ish. All the others were 1.5 year bucks. Is that good herd management? </div></div>


I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but I do have to ask. What's wrong with this group and the deer they shoot?

There have been a few comments made in regards to this, so I'll ask everyone these questions....


Are they doing this on your land?
Are you buying their tags to have the ability to tell them what to do?
Why do you feel that the standards that you have imposed on yourself should dictate what this group, any other group or any other individual does?
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stump Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but I do have to ask. What's wrong with this group and the deer they shoot?

There have been a few comments made in regards to this, so I'll ask everyone these questions....


Are they doing this on your land?
Are you buying their tags to have the ability to tell them what to do?
Why do you feel that the standards that you have imposed on yourself should dictate what this group, any other group or any other individual does? </div></div>

Good questions. I'll try to explain my point of view.

This group doesn't own much land in the area. The local farmers are allowing them to hunt because most of the farmers in the area feel that the deer herd is out of control and crop damage is excessive. By shooting only bucks, they are only taking one deer out of the herd. Shooting a few does would be a better herd management tool. The local farmers aren't going to mandate the shooting of does as a requirement for hunting permission as they are happy to have any deer shot (most have commented to me that they would like all deer shot).

I'm not trying to dictate what they shoot with the licenses they buy. I would like to see them lay off the yearlings, but it is their license, their choice. My point is that I wish they would buy some of the readily available antlerless tags and shoot some does along with their bucks. I guess my biggest issue is with the "it has to have antlers" mentality.

I guess that by not shooting does, they are guarantying that there will be many little bucks to shoot next season. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif I'm under the impression that shotgun season is the only time many of these guys get out. Instead of wanting to see tons of deer during their 5 day season, I wish they would harvest a few does to help the local farmers. They are managing for their 5 days a year when the land owners have to deal with it 365 days. The area we are talking about is along a major river bottom, so there are tons of deer and no chance of totally exterminating the herd.

As a farmer/land owner/herd manager, I don't follow this line of thinking. I can see that if I didn't own the land and suffer the crop losses, it would be easy to adopt their hunting strategy.
 
Since I have come to Iowa, I see hunters are the same everywhere. Hunters are human. Some are carefull,conscientious, about what, and when, they shoot, some shoot anything in any place. A poorly placed arrow can let deer die unrecovered, so can a blaze of buck shot. I found two unrecoverd bucks near my land this spring. One decent 2 1/2 yearold, one tiny little 5pt yearling, I had watched on my land all bow season. Just before shot gun season I told him to stay put as it would be safe on my land but he didn't listen. Both were obviously shot by firearms.In general I think bow hunters are a more selective group, but of coarse there are always eceptions.
 
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