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Switchgrass

Someone sent me a seed tag that had 86% dormant switch seed! Not a problem though if dormant planted in winter
Paul would you please elaborate this. What would be a high percentage and what would be low. And I guess what does it mean to have high or low. Would you expect to pay more for one or the other or seel out one or the other for specific reasons?
 
Which have you guys had better luck with when using these herbicides? I have a leftover jug of Simazine in the barn so was wanting to use that. Is there a LIMIT on how much Simazine can be used on CIR before it hurts/kills it?

Switch can take very high levles of atrazine and simazine without harming it, 4 quarts on sandy soils and perhaps 6 quarts on heavy soils. That exceeds the legal limit but the switch is pretty hard to kill.


Paul would you please elaborate this. What would be a high percentage and what would be low. And I guess what does it mean to have high or low. Would you expect to pay more for one or the other or seel out one or the other for specific reasons?

Seed dormancy is tricky because many seed distributers may stratify seed, test germination and then when the seed dries it returns to it's dormant state.

The only way to tell is to do a rag doll test at home and see how much seed germinates and how that compares to what is on the tag.

Normally the % of dormant seed should be low but again it depends on the age and variety, Cave In Rock is notorias for being dormant seed while Blackwell is not for instance.

Tricky subject for which there are no clear cut one size fits all answers, frost or dormant seeding switchgrass just excludes dormancy from the equation. After stratification, the the dormant seed will germinate and at that point who cares?

If one is determined to sow it in the spring or summer, then dormanccy rates are a huge issue...;)
 
Some questions have been brought up that I will post here well aware that some folks do not have farming backgrounds and there are things that are just plain confusing.

Exactly what does "frost" or "dormant" seeding mean and what methods of planting are involved?

Frost or dormant seeding just means seeding during the winter time and allowing Mother Nature to use natural freezing/thawing to both stratify the switchgrass seed and move the seed into the soil surface.

By winter seeding we can both use the natural action of the soil moving via freezing/thawing to incorporate seeds (and that includes all types of native grass and wildflower seeds) into the very top soil surface (thus avoiding the problem of planting native seeds too deep) and the wet chill process of late winter will insure stratification of any hard dormant seeds.
Switchgrass, eastern gamagrass and many widlflowers are notorious for having a high percentage of dormant seeds so winter seeding completely takes this problem out of the equation.

One can either broadcast or run a drill over the frozen soil surface, either way will work just fine because all we want to do is get the seeds on the soil surface and let nature do the rest.

Broadcasting can be done via hand spreaders, ATV mounted spreaders or tractor mounted spreaders all of which will need to be set on the lowest setting for tiny seeds like switchgrass.

Fluffy NWSG seeds like Indiangrass and Big Bluestem are tougher to plant using conventional broadcast seeders but there are Truax fluffy seeders available (check my NWSG threads via the link at the bottom of my posts)
Drills such as Truax or Great Plains usually have fluffy and small seed boxes on them and can be rented through many PF/NRCS/County Conservation Offices for a minimal fee or you can hire someone such as a PF habitat team or private applicator.

Drills just add some accuracy in actual seeding rates per acre and make sowing fluffies eaiser but are by no means necessary and I have seeded by both means for many years successfully.

When using a drill on frozen soils, one only needs to drop the seeds on the soil surface and let nature do the rest.

I am going to plant my switchgrass on a field that had RR beans in it last year....do I still need atrazine?

Planting into a bean stubble field is a perfect scenario because the coll seasons have been killed and the soil surface is bare however...weeds will still rapidly emerge in the spring and quickly overtake the field, smothering the switch seedlings.

It is possible of course to use mowing to control weeds and avoid the further use of herbicides just clip the weeds 8-12" high as needed.
Mowing however will set your switchgrass (or nwsg mix) back a year and that's the reason for residuals like atrazine.

Atrazine applied before weeds emerge will keep the field free of weeds (depending on the rate used) and allow the switchgrass (just like corn) to grow freely and rapidly.

Simazine is an alternative herbicide because it is not restricted in most states but may not provide as complete control as atrazine especially on heavy soils.

Applying a combination of glyphosate and atarzine/simazine in mid April (in most mid west states) before switchgrass emerges will usually assure you of a first year stand of switchgrass.

Is it better to follow corn the beans?

IMO it's better to follow beans just because the soil surface is clear but certainly one can seed into corn stubble. In both cases usually the residual action of any herbicides will be minimal the following year negating it's usefulness as far as controlling weeds in first year switchgrass.

All of this gives landowners several options both to plant and control weeds depending on thier budget and capabilities. Winter seeding has proven to be the least expensive yet most successful method of establishing NWSG and if followied with atrazine on switchgrass or Plateau on a mixed NWSG planting, you'll end up with a greatstand in one season...:)
 
Could some one please post some pictures of older switchgrass after a good snow storm. I would like to see how good it comes back up. Thanks Aaron
 
Could some one please post some pictures of older switchgrass after a good snow storm. I would like to see how good it comes back up. Thanks Aaron

This is some of mine at the end of winter a few years back...

771Switchgrass_in_late_winter.jpg


So far in 15 years mine has never ended up flat...as in down for the count, a little sun and it always pops right back up.

Look back thru this thread and there are plenty of pics and here is one from today and we have had all kinds of snow, ice and wind...along with some sunny days to melt the snow off the switch.

01-19-10Switch.jpg
 
Thanks I did read all of the old posts, but I wanted to be sure of what I was looking at. Your switchgrass looks real nice. If I can get switchgrass to stand up to the weather like that, till after deer season up here, I would be so happy. Thanks Aaron
 
If using atrazine, how many pounds per acre of big bluestem would you recomend when planting cove in rock switchgrass? I don't want to have a year with little to no cover in the area I'm planting and think that the bluestem would help.
 
If using atrazine, how many pounds per acre of big bluestem would you recomend when planting cove in rock switchgrass? I don't want to have a year with little to no cover in the area I'm planting and think that the bluestem would help.

If you use atrazine and have already killed the sod you will have switchgrass 4-5' high the first year. Big Bluestem won't get much taller then that til the 2nd or thrid year.

If you wish to mix it anywhere from 1-4#'s per acre will work ok...:)
 
If you use atrazine and have already killed the sod you will have switchgrass 4-5' high the first year. Big Bluestem won't get much taller then that til the 2nd or thrid year.

If you wish to mix it anywhere from 1-4#'s per acre will work ok...:)


Thanks this year I'm planning on sorghum or egyptian wheat in that field and then switchgrass the following year. Two years of atrazine should pretty much knock out any weeds.

We have problems in that field and I want the high growth the first year it's where a neighbor with atv's constantly trespasses without permission. Trashy problem family every time I block the field off with downed trees they find another way into our property. Had the state police involved several times still no effect they pay the fines and still sneak on. Thick growth will make it easier to catch them as they take off as soon as they see me. Can't wait till the spring thaw and they find out that I made the creek a bit deeper (5') where they cross it. I dug it in a way that it looks like it was done from the neighbors property and they are friends. :thrwrck:
 
One of the other speakers at the habitat workshop I spoke at Saturday was John Osenbaugh of Prairie Seed Farms in Lucas Iowa. There are other good suppliers out there but few have more years in the business of actually planting, growing and harvesting native grasses then John so it was great to have him speak and share his wealth of knowledge.​

Everything I know about NWSG I learned from John and I am still learning! Couple things he mentioned that I will pass on including something a friend asked John about switch seed...​

Roughly 5% of the switchgrass seed actually survives to turn into a mature plant

Now i never thought about that but here's the math...​

There are roughly 370,000 seeds per pound x 5#'s per acre, divided by 43560 sq feet per acre....that would be 42 plants per sq foot if they all survived!! :eek:

You really only need a single plant for a couple square feet because they spread and tiller out (hence the "clumps")​

5% of those seeds above would be 92,500 which would be roughly a plant every 2 sq foot which is right on the money because one adult mature switchgrass plant could easily fill 2 square feet!​

I want to frost seed but I can't afford atrazine and would like to use only gly...how late can I spray gly in ths spring after frost seeding??

John said that the rule of thumb is May 10th...as of May 10th no more then 10% of the switch seed will have germinated so you can apply a second last minute application of gly to kill foxtail and other early germinating weeds.​

The other 90% of the switchgrass will germinate in th next few weeks following and it will have a leg up on weeds at that point.​

Keep in mind this is a last minute application because the first should have been in mid April and the previous fall to kill fescue and brome.​

How often should I mow if I don't use residual herbicide?

John said few people listen to him but he reccomends 6 mowings the first year! :eek: :D

Most people are lucky to get it done 1-3 times but he said each time make sure you are just clipping the very tops of the switch leaves, so as it grows, lift the mower higher.​

Mowing isn't needed when using residual herbicides of course but without them it's important to remove weed canopy and spray 2-4D after the switch has 4 leaves.​

How long can I keep seed

John reccomends no more then 18 months after harvesting...so seed is harvested in late fall of 2009 will still be viable well into the spring of 2011.
He said some seed has kept well for up to 5 years while others won't keep 2 years so keep that in mind when ordering seed.​

There's more of course...much more so I'll add thoughts from time to time from Mr. Osenbaugh...:)
 
I will be planting about 12 acres of NWSG into bean stubble this spring.

Is frost seeding still the method of choice or should I drill it?

Is a mix of switchgrass, indiangrass and big blue the prefered mix for deer cover? Or straight switch?

What about spraying atrazine? When?

Mowing? I just read that Osenbaugh recomended 6 times the first summer.

Any other thoughts or tips are appreciatted. Thanks in advance.
 
I am helping a friend convert some reed canary grass into switchgrass and I was planning on burning the reed canary grass this spring then no-tilling in some RR soybeans... I will spray early and often with Round-up to keep the reed canary grass at bay... then I planned on frost seeding in spring of 2011... here is the problem, his land is in some government program and they aren't going to let me use atrizine (I would anyways but my buddy wants to follow the rules)... The DNR recomended journey or oust. Would either of those work the same as atrizine for switchgrass? I thought I read on an earlier page that we cant use journey on switch?
what would you guys recomend?
 
I will be planting about 12 acres of NWSG into bean stubble this spring.

Is frost seeding still the method of choice or should I drill it?

First off "frost or dormant" seeding just means sowing in the winter time and you can broadcast or use a drill and just drop the seed on the surface.

Having said that....frost seeding is the most effective, inexpensive method or time to plant ANY NWSG (check my recent post in the NESG thread)

Is a mix of switchgrass, indiangrass and big blue the prefered mix for deer cover? Or straight switch?

Personally I like stands of both but switchgrass has been the most preferred cover for whitetails in regards to mature bucks using it for bedding.

I like diversity so I have mixed NWSG stands and pure CIR stands but that is something youhave to decide for yourself.

What about spraying atrazine? When?

Mowing? I just read that Osenbaugh recomended 6 times the first summer.

Atrazine can be applied in late April with glyphosate to either pure switchgrass or switch and big bluestem, it cannot be applied to Indiangrass.

If you apply it alone (without gly) then do it in early April but I like to spray it anytime up to May 10th with glyphosate. The gly will nuke any early germinating weeds and the atrazine will keep them from coming back.

Apply the maximum amount for it to be affective though. Keep an eye on things and if foxtail or weeds come up, then clip as needed 8-12" high and then higher as the switch grows


I am helping a friend convert some reed canary grass into switchgrass and I was planning on burning the reed canary grass this spring then no-tilling in some RR soybeans... I will spray early and often with Round-up to keep the reed canary grass at bay... then I planned on frost seeding in spring of 2011... here is the problem, his land is in some government program and they aren't going to let me use atrizine (I would anyways but my buddy wants to follow the rules)... The DNR recomended journey or oust. Would either of those work the same as atrizine for switchgrass? I thought I read on an earlier page that we cant use journey on switch?
what would you guys recomend?

Journey is a mix of Roundup (glyphosate) and Plateau and Plateau is safe for switchgrass if applied at NO MORE then 4 ounces per acre. It is not as effective at that rate and normally I use it at 12-14 ounces on mixed NWSG...but it would help.

I have been testing Oust XP myself because I have found that switchgrass and Big Bluestem are impervious to it! It works great for releasing established switch but I am still testing it on new seedings.

I love Oust XP because it gives outstanding season long control on tree seedlings and I noticed by accident that switchgrass thrives where I sprayed Oust!

Now...the label says you can spray up to 2 ounces of Oust 3 months before switch germinates so my thoughts would be to apply one ounce of Oust XP with roundup in very early April.

Then before May 10th hit the RCG again with 2 quarts of gly, one quart of crop oil and 2 quarts of simazine.

I have a patch of RCG I will be testing that on myself and will try both 1 and two ounces of Oust.

In your case where he is killing the RCG this year(kudos for taking the time to do it right) I would spray 2 ounces of Oust in late fall and then you could skip the early spring spraying.

Just use a late spring spraing of either roundup and simazine (very safe) or roundup and Plateau (or Journey) which is a little iffy.

I posted this in the NWSG thread but I'll post it here for some thoughts to answer several of the questions asked here. Note that frost seeding was the MOST effective method and that 4 ounces of Plateau got the NWSG off to a good start but then follow up mowing was required.

Native Grass Establishment Demonstration Plots<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
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Greg Brenneman, Ext. Ag Engineering Spec.<o:p></o:p>
Kevin Van Dee, Farm Superintendent<o:p></o:p>
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Introduction<o:p></o:p>

Current CRP programs have emphasized the use of warm season native grasses. In the early 1990’s a variety trial of different species and varieties of native grasses was established at the SE Research and Demonstration farm by NRCS staff. These plots have been very useful for landowners to see the growth characteristics of the different varieties. However, landowners have had many questions on what a seeding should look like during the establishment years. The project goal was to compare different seeding times and weed control methods in the establishment of native grasses. <o:p></o:p>
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Methods<o:p></o:p>

In the fall of 2001, a plot area previously in corn was laid out for seeding to native grasses over the following 3 years. One third of the plot area was seeded each year. The remainder of the plot area was planted to soybeans until the year it was seeded to native grasses. This resulted in native grasses being established in 2002, 2003, and 2004.<o:p></o:p>
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Each year’s seeding was further subdivided into a late fall dormant seeding (late November – early December), a early spring frost seeding (late February – early March), and a late spring seeding (mid May – early June). A diverse mix of native grasses and forbs (wild flowers) was used in each seeding. The primary grasses used were big bluestem, Indian grass, switchgrass, little bluestem, side oats gramma, and Canada wild rye. All of the seeding was done by broadcasting the seed on the surface. If disking needed to be done in the late spring for weed control, those plots were packed with a roller after seeding.<o:p></o:p>
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During the establishment year, each of the planting times was split and 4.0 oz/acre of Plateau herbicide was applied to one-half of each plot for control of annual weeds. In addition, during the establishment year, the plots were mowed 1 or 2 times for weed control.<o:p></o:p>
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Results<o:p></o:p>

While each seeding time resulted in the establishment of native grasses, there were noticeable differences in the density and composition of the stands. The fall dormant seeding and early spring frost seeding usually resulted in a more complete stand in the first year. The fall dormant seedings also had greater variety and density of forbs observed in the first and second year. With the late spring seeding, it was often the second or third year before a full stand of native grasses was established. <o:p></o:p>
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The primary weed challenges were heavy stands of giant foxtail along with field pennycress, common lambsquarter, and marestail. The use of Plateau provided good to excellent control of giant foxtail into mid or late summer depending on the year. This usually allowed full establishment of the native grasses with seed head production in the first year. Where Plateau was used, it was often noted that there was a greater density of native grasses and a lower density forbs in the second or third year.<o:p></o:p>
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A heavy stand of marestail was often seen in the second growing season. Very little marestail was seen after the second growing season.<o:p></o:p>
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These plots were used as a part of 8 different public and interagency field days with a total attendance of over 200. The plots will be maintained for observation for the next several years.<o:p></o:p>



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Some folks wonder how Cave In Rock switchgrass does on lowlands that flood occasionally so I stopped and took a couple pics of CIR planted as a riparian buffer on crop land that floods fairly often.

CIRLowland.jpg


I took this pic February 3rd 2010 after we have endured multiple blizzards, 50 MPH winds and lengthy ice storms yet the CIR is standing tall. The part next to the corn is trampled from the heavy harvesting equipment and still looks better then most grasses this time of year!

CIR02-03-10.jpg


This CIR is at least 6 ft tall and ideal screening cover that thrives on low moist occasionally flooded land...:way:
 
Some winter pics of switchgrass and it's imitations regarding snow cover.

Where snow falls straight down switch holds up well

02-04-10Switchgrass.jpg


and just "fills" the grasses from the bottom up

Winterswitch.jpg


But where snow blows in via drifting as it did along the edge of this field it has it's limitations.

Snowedunder.jpg


The edge of that switch field is next to a giant cornfield with no fencerows of trees of any kind. Snow blows in, often in drifts 6' high or more and that kind of a situation will crush ANY grasses.

I prefer shrubby/conifer mixed windbreaks along field edges for that reason. They act as a snow catch, overhead protection for both birds and whitetails as well as thermal cover.

A wet fluffy snow will also take down switch but with a warm sunny day will melt the snow and unlike most grasses, the switch will spring back upright....:way:
 
Got my switchgrass frost...errr..."snow"seeding done March 4th...

It had melted down some and was slushy when I broadcasted the seed.

3-16Snowdepth.jpg


Plenty of killed sod to help hold the seed

3-16-Switchonsnow.jpg


At least I could see where I had been...

3-16switchseeding.jpg


and check the coverage

3-6-10Switchseedonsnow.jpg


The snow has melted since then and we have a week of cold rains in store...perfect!:way:
 
Just wanted to pass along that nannyslayer (Brian at 21st Century Co-op) has a 7.5 lb tub of Paramount in the warehouse right now and it's $52 a lb.

Paramount is a post-emergence herbicide safe for switchgrass and big bluestem along with a few others.

Check the label in the herbicide thread because it does provide an option to control foxtail after it emerges...:way:
 
ok guys... I have a question... I'm already doing planning for 2011 switchgrass plantings and I have a spot that is completely taken over by some sort of super tall reed grass. I don't know the proper name for it, we just call it reed grass. Here are some pictures... what is it? is it any good for deer? it almost seems too thick if there is such a thing.... this is an area that I'm planning on burning off and spraying for a year then CIR in 2011. I was just wondering if it was worth leaving.

IMG_7031.jpg


IMG_7030.jpg


IMG_7027.jpg


IMG_7026.jpg


IMG_7029.jpg
 
Also, If I had an area of NWSG mix and I wanted to establish a stronger amount of switchgrass in that mix, when would be the best time to seed that? The stand needs to be burned really bad, so should I burn it this year and then frost seed some switch in to it next year? what about the already extablished native grasses, wont they shade out the newly planted switch? or do I need to just start over with a new mix with more switchgrass in it?
 
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