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Switchgrass

IQDM said:
Also, If I had an area of NWSG mix and I wanted to establish a stronger amount of switchgrass in that mix, when would be the best time to seed that? The stand needs to be burned really bad, so should I burn it this year and then frost seed some switch in to it next year? what about the already extablished native grasses, wont they shade out the newly planted switch? or do I need to just start over with a new mix with more switchgrass in it?
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I would burn late this spring (late april to mid may) and then frost seed next winter....normally the natives are clumpy enough that the switch can compete pretty well.

Not sure what the other grass is...an invasive perhaps? I'd like to see a closeup of a seedhead if you can get another pic...;)
 
IQDM, are those pictures from just recently? If so, it's amazing how that stayed standing like that through the winter we just had. If the deer use that stuff like switchgrass, I want some of that stuff growing on our place whatever it is. Did you ever see deer traveling or bedding in it? How tall is that, it looks like maybe 8 feet in the pictures.
 
yes these pictures are from last week. there are trails through it but I have not found any beds. I would say its at least 8' to10' tall and really thick. The stems are hollow and just shy of a half inch dia. Dbltree I will get a close up of the seeds sometime this week.
 
whitetail fanatic said:
Has anyone tried seeding CIR SG after brassica's?? I was going to seed these fields that had dwarf essex rape in last fall but there are a lot of rape leaves left on the ground and I'm worried about the alleopathic chemicals that could inhibit germination of the CIR SG. I think we will have plenty of cold wet weatherl to stratify the SG seed yet this spring if I broadcast the seed this week.

They are talking snow by next weekend and last year I seeded CIR on April 1 and got excellent first year stand of CIR. I could seed it this week but I don't want to waste the seed, glyphosate, atrazine, and all the time to do this if it won't germinate well because of the rape leaves (I would broadcast the seed and spray myself with a 4 wheeler sprayer). I would just wait till next year instead if I knew there was a chance of germination failure. What does everyone think? Should I go ahead and seed or play it safe and wait till next year and do RR soybeans this year? I am sending pictures to Lickcreek. You will also see a pic of last years seeding which was flattened by heavy snow. About half that SG has stood up now that the snow has melted. Hopefully it stands up better when it's fully mature.

We did have some very heavy snow this year though, so I don't know if it could ever be expected to stand up in those conditions even when it's fully mature. thanks for posting the pics again LC
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I wish I knew for certain what to tell you regarding the allelopathic affects from the rape to the switchgrass seed but I have not tried that combination. It may work just fine but you are aware that there is the possibility of problems. Following RR beans is certainly safer!

I think your first year switch looks great but it also shows why NWSG is not the best winter cover in areas with heavy snowfall. Still great fall cover and important part of any habitat program but I just hate to see folks putting all their "bedding" hopes in a field of switchgrass....;)

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If that stuff stood through this winter, I wouldn't touch it. My cir switchgrass was all laid flat by snow this winter, It's been pretty much useless since the 1st December snowstorm.
 
I took a few pictures of the seed heads... I also walked every trail through this stuff and found a couple beds. The area is probally only 50yds long by 30yds wide. I almost think I should keep the stuff but what are your feelings about keeping an invasive?

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I'm 99% positive that is an invasive non-native grass that will eventually spread....

Could be Pampas Grass or something like it

Pampas Grass

or Reed Grass

Reed Grass

Non-native invasive species are trouble and usually we regret allowing them to survive on our property but that's something landowners have to decide for themselves...;)
 
I have never seen a native grass that looked like that, you and everyone around you are better off to kill that stuff and plant it back to a native so it does not spread further and become some else's problem. :D
 
Thanks guys... My feelings are that this stuff is better than the Reed canary grass which is surrounding it, but I would rather have CIR or Prairie Cordgrass so I will be burning this whole area including this tall stuff and converting it to NWSG next spring. Thanks again for your help!
 
A few known "safe" herbicides for switchgass and Big Bluestem have been listed..atrazine, simazine and Paramount (quinclorac) but I have also mentioned using Oust XP so i want to touch on that a bit.

The label states that if 2 ounces of Oust Xp is applied one should wait three months before planting switchgrass or big bluestem. I believe on heavy soils that if one applies Oust in late March knowing that dormant seeded switch will not germinate until mid to late May...it will be safe...HOWEVER...I am testing that theory myself and would urge others to allow me to either prove or disprove that theory before using it yourself.

Even one ounce of Oust XP provides pretty effective control on my tree plantings so applying that 45 days ahead of germination should be fine but I don't want anyone killing their NWSG plantings until I know more.

I do know this...2 ounces of Oust Xp and one quart of 41% glyphosate applied with one quart of crop oil is wicked deadly!! I sprayed the sod last fall where I would be dormant seeding switch and there is not so much as a hint of life from the fescue, brome and other sod grasses!

You can see where I sprayed and didn't in this picture

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and along the left edge in this pic

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This is why I encourage landowners to fall kill the sod where they plant on planting nwsg and if done correctly will help ensure a rapid, successful NWSG establishment.

In this pic you can see where I planted trees with a tree planter last spring and sprayed Oust XP, Surflan, Gly and cropoil after planting. This spring you can see the whole place is full of Big Bluestem...NONE of which was planted!

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The seed was laying in the soil and we both disturbed it with the tractor/planter and released it via the spraying.

I have seen this happen repeatedly over the past 15 years and watched switchgrass explode after trees were sprayed with Oust but I need to have more accurate information before advising others.

Today I sprayed 2 ounces of Oust XP and 4 quarts of Simazine (I was spraying tree plantings) on two areas that I dormant seeded switchgrass.

I'll keep everyone posted on the results because at $6 an ounce Oust could be very effective and economical for landowners to use on some NWSG...:)
 
Switchgrass seed doesn't start germinating until soil temps reach 60 degrees or higher (because it is a warm season grass) which is not extremely important unless one is applying glyphosate just before germination.

Soil Thermometers are not expensive and a pretty accurate way to determine sol temps and monitor how soon one needs to apply glyphosate with later being better of course.

Luster Leaf Rapitest Soil Thermometer

Killed sod with a heavy layer of thatch can insulate soil and keep it cooler then bare soils such as thos previously in RR beans or where the field has been burned.

This is a close up of the killed residue that I dormant seeded Cave In Rock switchgrass into in March.

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Despite being mowed prior to spraying last fall that thatch is still very thick in some places.

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In my case the Oust XP I applied along with 41% glyphosate last fall is providing some continued residual effects and as of yet no weed/grass growth has taken place.

Where gly only is used in the fall, dormant weed and fescue seeds often are released and germinate with a vengeance the following spring.

Applying Gly as late as possible even with out a residual such as atrazine or simazine can often set back weeds for a few more weeks allowing switch a fighting chance.

Adding atrazine and/or simazine will help hold weeds at bay and ensure rapid establishment of the switchgrass the first year...:way:
 
Some folks wonder if it's safe to spray gly on established switch (or natives) in early April. The natives rarely start growing before late April or early May in SE Iowa.

Here's some pics of switch that was treated last year with Oust XP...so it's very clean.

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No so much as a blade of new growth

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However where there may be some cool seasons mixed in it get's confusing and difficult for most people to tell as in this pic of switch only a few feet from the previous pics.

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Carefully check in the clumps themselves before spraying but since were talking about WARM season grasses it's unlikely you will find any growth just yet.;)
 
Dbltree, If switchgrass is grown in a filed where you don't want to burn for fear of it escaping or not being able to have proper fire breaks, will it work as good to mow established switchgrass in late March or Early April (and possibly have the neighbor bale it to remove all the thatch) and then spray with gly in late April before the Switchgrass starts to grow to kill of any unwanted cool season grass/weeds? If we did this every 3 years would the health and longevity of the switchgrass be as good as if you burn every 3 years? Or does it really need to be burned every 3 years to maintain it in excellent shape?
 
whitetail fanatic said:
Dbltree, If switchgrass is grown in a filed where you don't want to burn for fear of it escaping or not being able to have proper fire breaks, will it work as good to mow established switchgrass in late March or Early April (and possibly have the neighbor bale it to remove all the thatch) and then spray with gly in late April before the Switchgrass starts to grow to kill of any unwanted cool season grass/weeds? If we did this every 3 years would the health and longevity of the switchgrass be as good as if you burn every 3 years? Or does it really need to be burned every 3 years to maintain it in excellent shape?
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Yep...that's the next best option! You can also use Oust XP in early spring to "clean" it up if need be...:way:
 
Dbltree, awhile back, you said that you might try using oust xp as an establishment year spray for switchgrass? did you end up doing that this year? I am interested to find out how that works out! especially since I have whole bottle of oust xp just waiting to nuke some unsuspecting weeds!
 
IQDM said:
Dbltree, awhile back, you said that you might try using oust xp as an establishment year spray for switchgrass? did you end up doing that this year? I am interested to find out how that works out! especially since I have whole bottle of oust xp just waiting to nuke some unsuspecting weeds!
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I have sprayed a test strip in late March (better to have the Oust the ground at least 60 days before switch germination) so I'll be reporting back on the results.

The safest bet is to apply Oust at 2 ounces per acre with glyphosate in the fall...I have not a bit of weeds/grass coming up yet where I used Oust last fall! :way:
 
Second Year CIR

I seeded my CIR switch last season and saw decent first year growth. There are some weedy areas coming fast that I would like to get a handle on. Can I use gly/atrazine again this year-if so what is my time-frame left to avoid damaging the new growth. Also is there a chance that taking this approach this year is overkill. Current soil temp here is in the low 40's.
 
I was looking at our CIR SG yesterday that was seeded last year and got great 1st year growth last year. At the bases of the clumps, I could see some that were starting to push out green tips. I hope this years seeding doesn't germinate for a little while yet cause I want to hit any weeds/cool season grass one more time with gly before it germinates. Last year's seeding I sprayed on May 11th and it worked perfect, the SG germinated shortly after that. I have a feeling if the warmer than normal weather continues, I might have to spray this year's seeding earlier??
 
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