Timber Stand Improvment

[letemgrow]

I like to lower density to a point where it encourages undergrowth...if you can see nothing but wide open space in your timber...it's not the best whitetail habitat....

I second that notion, that is great for calling in spring turkeys, but not so much for whitetails. :way:

Mature, mast producing trees along with lots of browse and cover would be the ideal habitat.

 

[Hat Trick]

White Oak regrowth

In the pictures that Letemgrow posted where the white oaks have come back up around the mature oak is obviously what a lot of us are looking for in our timbers when managing for whitetails. My question is does any of you dig those up and replant those or is that more work than just direct nut seed planting efforts? I am going to be working my rear end off this fall on TSI/Edge Feathering/Bedding on the farm. Maybe this is answered in a different discussion. Good stuff in here though.

 

[letemgrow]

Hat trick,

If you have enough mature white oaks, I would think you could just let nature take it's course and clear out around them and let the squirrels to do the rest. If you are really a go getter, you could dig up the oaks, anytime in the fall after they go dormant would be the best time instead of spring. This way they can start growing their roots until the ground freezes and be that much farther ahead of spring planted seedlings.

If planting, I would direct seed acorns instead of seedlings if the same species is available in acorns or seedlings. They have to be guarded though or the squirrels will find most of them.

 

[dbltree]

If planting, I would direct seed acorns instead of seedlings if the same species is available in acorns or seedlings. They have to be guarded though or the squirrels will find most of them

Check the Tree Planting thread for discussion on that subject...

 

[Sligh1]

Anyone have problems with Prickly Ash? I have areas that are infested with it. I also have areas that I did TSI jobs in that OBVIOUSLY created more prickly ash than I'd like.

How would you all control it? Can be pretty thick. Could just snip or cut off with barely touching the chainsaw to it - then hitting with Tordon BUT I was wondering if any of you have other methods or fast ways of killing it? Thanks!

 

[letemgrow]

I sprayed some last summer with a heavy dose of roundup and it seemed to kill it all, may need another dose this year tho. It is pretty heavy in places on my farm, but I only kill it where I am planting more desirable stuff.

 

[dgallow]

Anyone have problems with Prickly Ash? I have areas that are infested with it. I also have areas that I did TSI jobs in that OBVIOUSLY created more prickly ash than I'd like.

How would you all control it? Can be pretty thick. Could just snip or cut off with barely touching the chainsaw to it - then hitting with Tordon BUT I was wondering if any of you have other methods or fast ways of killing it? Thanks!

We don't have prickly ash that I'm aware of...but if it's truly an ash then Remedy would do a good job. Most trees less than 3" basal diameter can be effectively controlled with a basal bark application to the lower 12" of stem with Remedy Ultra;Diesel fuel (3;1). This can be done at any time of year, except in standing water or snow....whenever one has time is acceptable. The killed sprout base should rot within a year for most trees and the kill is complete through the root collar. Highest kill rates are when saplings are in smooth bark stage. You can also kill rough barked ones, but it will take more product and attention to detail during application... eg don't miss a spot. For 'hard to control' species, treat when actively growing in May and June but not during droughty conditions. The nice thing about Remedy is that it doesn't migrate with soil water so one can spray in close proximity to a crop tree without colateral damage.

I've killed some 10-12' trees with late summer foliar gly app but that uses quite a bit of chemical and final death seems delayed for at least one growing season....plus anything green under the tree gets nuked. With rem;diesel we can cut that size of tree down....leave a 2-4" stump...treat the stump down to soil level and the stump/roots will be dead within a year and only vegetaion around the stump is killed.

Here is a hickory we 'basal bark' treated earlier this winter. Prolly the easiest sprout kill method out there, excepting a hot forward fire.

 

[letemgrow]

This is a pic of an old oak stump that was logged out many years ago...what do you see that replaced the oak?

Hint: It is not very valuable.

It is even less valuable now!! The rest still standing were just girdled since they were a little large to be falling, or would not fall where I needed them too. Not evey hickory was cut in this stand of course, just the ones blocking some oaks crowns that look like good trees.

Another thing that compounds my problem, heavy deer browsing on any oak that is planted. Tree guards or planting where deer cannot reach them is the only way to get anything to grow on my place. Dang deer anyways

Walnut that was suffering the same fate from a stump sprout off a logged walnut a few years ago. A wire cage on the best re-sprout and it jumped up to 15 feet already while the surrounding sprouts will never get above the browse line.

 

[dbltree]

Nice work Phil!

 

[dbltree]

Prescribed fire signifi-cantly increased the density of oak seedlings and sprouts < 10 cm tall. Prescribed fire also reduced the density of red maple regeneration

There is no question that fire can be a valuable tool in encouraging oak regeneration and lowering the density of many invasive, shade tolerant species. Discuss your long term timber goals with your forester and come up with a Forest Stewardship Plan that may or may not include burning as a management tool.

After doing my own due diligence and discussing the use of fire as a tool on my property I have been encouraged to use fire more often to not only as a timber management tool but a means of encouraging more natural native browse.

Removing leaf litter can increase the density of native forbs and grasses useful to whitetails and other wildlife.

The following links will give you further detailed information on the subject of burning of oak regeneration, how it works, why it works and problems you may encounter.

First-Year Effects of Prescribed Burning on Oak Regeneration

White oak seedling height growth differed significantly among the three burn treatments. Seedlings in the single year burn sites had the greatest height growth, while seedlings in the non-burned controls had the least. Diameter growth was significantly greater in the single year burns than the controls.

Prescription burning to promote oak regeneration

Using Fire to Regenerate Oak After Clearcutting

Using Prescribed Fire For Oak Management

Prescribed Burns In Eastern Mixed-oak Forests

Fire can be a powerful tool in enhancing our habitat but knowledge and understanding beforehand will help determine your goals and then you can decide if using prescribed burns in your timber is right for you...

 

[dbltree]

Spring is a great time to be out looking for 'shrooms and taking inventory on your oaks at the same time. The leaves of young oaks tend to stand out and I often go back with brush nippers and nip away any competing trees.

White oak seedling

White Oak young tree

Black oak

At my place the competing trees are often shingle oaks

and the they stand out in stark contrast this time of year...white oak on left and shingle center behind

Here we have a black on the left, shingle oak and then a giant white oak towering behind

This is NOT a good time of year to thin oaks themselves because of oak wilt but other species can be nipped off or trimmed away or at least a mental note made for a winter TSI project...

 

[tricuspid]

I am preparing to release some nice white and red oak as well as cherry on my farm with hack and squirt. You guys don't seem to use it as much as girdleing and hing cutting. Any reason? I will be using Arsenal and Roundup.. full strengh.
Thanks.

 

[dbltree]

I am preparing to release some nice white and red oak as well as cherry on my farm with hack and squirt. You guys don't seem to use it as much as girdleing and hing cutting. Any reason? I will be using Arsenal and Roundup.. full strengh.
Thanks.

I use hack n squirt on smaller trees but usually a double girdle and herbicide is required on larger trees, especially where cost share is being paid.

Even at that it may take some large maples and hickories several years to die.

The object of hinge cutting is NOT to kill the tree so as to encourage growth and cover for whitetails yet reduce canopy around crop trees.

Remedy and dsl fuel wroks well for basal spraying of many smaller trees and brush. I like Tordon RTU for hack and squirt on locust and other small trees but in the end one should use what ever is effective on your intended target cull trees.

Welcome to IW!

 

[tricuspid]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I have learned a great deal reading your TSI musings.
Take care.
Tom

 

[DE2IA]

Dbltree are the Shingle Oaks not good for deer? I have a few that I had saved but I don't know that much about them.

 

[dbltree]

Dbltree are the Shingle Oaks not good for deer? I have a few that I had saved but I don't know that much about them.

They are...deer and turkeys will eat the acorns but they have little or no value as timber trees. Shingle oaks are quite invasive and spread easily so I often hinge many of them for bedding areas and encourage growth and regeneration of white and red oaks if possible.

In short I don't try to eradicate them but also don't allow them to take over and dominate my timber....

 

[letemgrow]

They are...deer and turkeys will eat the acorns but they have little or no value as timber trees. Shingle oaks are quite invasive and spread easily so I often hinge many of them for bedding areas and encourage growth and regeneration of white and red oaks if possible.

In short I don't try to eradicate them but also don't allow them to take over and dominate my timber....

Exactly what I do, some are left since they produce loads of small acorns, but there are better oaks that do the same and also have timber value such as Northern Reds, white oak, bur oak, swamp white oak etc. :way:

 

[tricuspid]

Doser vs hinge cutting

My dozer is a heck of a lot stronger than my knees after 5 operations, so I ask: If i push over a 10-20" tree with the dozer, will the top yeild any browse the next year? I am also concerned about lack of bedding areas on my place. Can I make both by using the dozer?
Thanks.

 

[letemgrow]

My dozer is a heck of a lot stronger than my knees after 5 operations, so I ask: If i push over a 10-20" tree with the dozer, will the top yeild any browse the next year? I am also concerned about lack of bedding areas on my place. Can I make both by using the dozer?
Thanks.

I doubt it will if the roots come out of the ground, now if you can just break the top off it should send up a lot of sprouts for great browse and cover.

 

[tricuspid]

One last question. I am hinge cutting tall, spindley 9",close trees. I do not see how they will not hang up on their neighbors. In order to keep their top growth, would it be better to leave them hung at the tops and count on hard winds, or force them over with the dozer?