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TIP things

Fishbonker

Life Member
TIP Thing #1: Don't forget when you purchase your deer tags to donate $2.00 to Turn In Poachers of Iowa. There is supposed to be a screen on the ELSI computer that prompts the clerk to ask if you would like to donate $2.00 to TIP but I haven't been asked for several years. I always remind the clerk to add it to the cost of the tag.

TIP is not funded from the Fish and Game Protection Fund. TIP relies on the $2.00 donations to fund the rewards program. Please remember to donate.

TIP Thing #2: With the budget cuts the DNR is facing they have instituted a "No out of State Travel" policy. This policy has created a sort of Catch-22.

There is a Federal program that will provide equipment and training for a Mobile Device Interrogation Program. The cost of the training for one Conservation Officer with the equipment included is $7500.00. If the DNR wanted to purchase the training and equipment without the Federal program it would cost $15,000.00.

Here is the catch: the Federal program is only provided at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Georgia. The DNR "No out of State Travel" policy prevents them from sending a Conservation Officer to the training and taking advantage of the Federal subsidy.

To try and overcome the “No out of State Travel policy” several Conservation Officers came to the last TIP meeting with a request that TIP provide the necessary funding to send one Conservation Officer to the FLETC for the training and equipment.

A little background on what a Mobile Device Interrogation Program is. It is a small computer that can download all the data from a cell phone or tablet. The computer reads all the contacts, text messaging, photos, videos, call history, cell towers and GPS co-ordinates on the cell phone or tablet. Some cell phones and tablets even save GPS info for photos.

The plan is to send one Conservation Officer from the Under Cover Investigations Unit to be trained and keep the computer. When a large bust is imminent and a search warrant is obtained the Conservation Officer will travel to that area to be there to interrogate the cell phone or tablet of the suspect when the bust occurs.

Currently the Conservation Officers have to rely on other agencies to do the device interrogation often resulting in delays in obtaining the information. These delays, days to weeks, can result in other potential suspects who might be on the contacts of the suspected poacher to “lose” their cell phones or destroy other evidence.

The Conservation Officers who attended the TIP meeting outlined several huge cases that were made with the MDIP and a big one that may slip away because the suspect petitioned the court to get his cell phone back before they could get the device interrogation done. That case is still working its way through the system.

In Iowa the courts can assess liquidated damages on poaching cases. In short, liquidated damages means the People of Iowa suffered a loss by the action of the poacher and the poacher is to make the People of Iowa whole by paying for the damages. A 200 inch deer can be a $20,000.00 fine. This money goes to the Fish and Game Protection Fund. One bust involving a 200 inch deer would more than pay for the cost of the training, but here again the Catch-22, no out of state travel and no funds to purchase the equipment.

With all that in mind, TIP has agreed to pay for up to 50% of the training. TIP will match up to $3750.00 in donations from other sources.

There was an Iowa Conservation Alliance meeting today. The ICA is an umbrella group for several organizations. I can’t name them all off the top of my head, but they include PF, NWTF, DU, WU, IBA, ITA, IWL, and several others. The Conservation Officers attended and made their pitch for funding.


At this time the dates for the training aren't set so it is important to get the funding in place so we can secure a slot for one of the Conservation Officers.

There are two things you can do to help secure the funding for this invaluable training and equipment. If you are a member of an organization ask that your organization sends a donation or if you would like to donate you can send a check to TIP. TIP will act as the clearing house for funds so to make a donation (either personal or your organization) please send a check made out to TIP of Iowa Inc. to:


TIP of Iowa, Inc.





P.O. Box 703





Pella, Iowa 50219





It is important that in the memo area of the check please put UCIU so the donation goes into the correct account. This is your chance to directly help put poachers behind bars or in the financial hurt locker. Remember that any liquidated damage fines go back to the Fish and Game Protection Fund and will eventually benefit fishing, hunting and trapping in Iowa.

One last note, the Under Cover Investigations Unit (UCIU) has been around since the early 80’s. I didn’t even know they existed until the TIP meeting. The members of the UCIU are called upon when a large case develops that is too big for one Conservation Officer to handle. Let’s just say that if you are on the UCIU radar expect a rocket up your after burner, you are going down in flames.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask.

Also please feel free to share this information on any other web sites. We need to make this happen.

Thanks.

The ‘Bonker
 
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A little background on what a Mobile Device Interrogation Program is. It is a small computer that can download all the data from a cell phone or tablet. The computer reads all the contacts, text messaging, photos, videos, call history, cell towers and GPS co-ordinates on the cell phone or tablet. Some cell phones and tablets even save GPS info for photos.

I'm a little hesistant on the "big brotherness" of this but if it helps bust poachers and poaching rings, I could get behind it.
 
Every law enforcement unit has a computer forensics team that has this ability. If the DNR doesn't have the equipment a sister law enforcement agency does possess it and usually accepts referrals from other agencies. The primary ability is to retrieve searches, queries and deleted queries on the device. Deleted text messages cannot be retrieved unless the enforcement agency has a hold order on file with the phone carrier. Most phone carriers dispose of text messages after several days due to the volume. Location of pics can be determined but it's common knowledge that if you turn off the location services feature on the phone locations can't be figured. In my experience call history and tower locations are provided by the phone carrier by court order not by examining the phone itself due to privacy issues attached to the 4th Amendment. In fact, the contacts, saved photos, etc. can't be viewed unless consent is given by the owner or a search warrant is obtained.
 
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Every law enforcement unit has a computer forensics team that has this ability. If the DNR doesn't have the equipment a sister law enforcement agency does possess it and usually accepts referrals from other agencies. The primary ability is to retrieve searches, queries and deleted queries on the device. Deleted text messages cannot be retrieved unless the enforcement agency has a hold order on file with the phone carrier. Most phone carriers dispose of text messages after several days due to the volume. Location of pics can be determined but it's common knowledge that if you turn off the location services feature on the phone locations can't be figured. In my experience call history and tower locations are provided by the phone carrier by court order not by examining the phone itself due to privacy issues attached to the 4th Amendment. In fact, the contacts, saved photos, etc. can't be viewed unless consent is given by the owner or a search warrant is obtained.

So does this mean we can count on you for a donation?
 
I donate every year with my federal income tax , my Iowa property, sales tax during my several trips a year and the $600 NR tag.
 
I donate every year with my federal income tax and my Iowa property, sales tax during my several trips a year there.

I too pay all the taxes you do, mine are year round in Iowa but I'm still going to donate.

Oh yeah, you left out the Pitman Robertson taxes you pay on all of the outdoor gear you buy in Iowa.
 
I'm a little hesistant on the "big brotherness" of this but if it helps bust poachers and poaching rings, I could get behind it.

Agreed.

I read Jdubs response but this part could go south quick. Look at the Patriot Act. They already spy on us. I'm hesitant to give the gov anymore powers of surveillance. Even if it is to catch poachers.

I know all about good intentions but there's a paved road that leads somewhere, I forget the destination, that is made from that stuff...just sayin

With that being said, I am in favor of the overall idea.
 
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I don't think spying is the correct term, this is all done with either a search warrant or the consent of the device owner. The DNR is not the NSA.

Here is a link to the company that provides the equipment:

http://www.cellebrite.com/mobile-forensics

The site may better explain what the program can and can't do. I understand some reservations, I understand incrementalism, I also understand what poachers are taking away from Iowa every year.
 
Agreed.

I read Jdubs response but this part could go south quick. Look at the Patriot Act. They already spy on us. I'm hesitant to give the gov anymore powers of surveillance. Even if it is to catch poachers.

I know all about good intentions but there's a paved road that leads somewhere, I forget the destination, that is made from that stuff...just sayin

With that being said, I am in favor of the overall idea.

Surveillance that watches or checks on the Bad Guy? I am for it. I guess I'm not terribly worried about them looking over my shoulder either. I have nothing to hide so they'll get bored and move on before too long.
 
UCIU- generic descriptions (of course, nothing that would be too deep with info) of what types of things they do and go on with them? News to me.
Sort of a conversation for another day & I am NOT that guy that comes up with pie in the sky crazy ideas, I've thought a lot about some common sense bullet proof solutions.... A real & solid need of this state - ROBO bucks and things like this....
1) It targets and is concrete evidence against the most EGREGIOUS POACHERS among Iowa. Works in many other states incredibly well and drives in huge amounts of revenue through large fines & stops criminals.
2) The Legislature could inact fines that involve it that would more than employ more officers & it would actually bring profits into the DNR instead of the choking budget the officers are facing now. We all know the fine changes approved by legislatures for 180"+ bucks or whatever it is. Something like $18,000/offense or WHATEVER, something close to that (which, BTW, easily passed the legislature for those steep fines). $15,000 per Robo-Buck violation & 5 year hunting privileges removed + equipment confiscation/auction later, for example - if I was in the legislature, that would be a NO BRAINER. 3-4 convictions per county for example in a 2 month period - that pays for officers & brings in a lot more past that. (personally, joe schmo tard - me, I think I could spend the time and nail 3-4 quite easily if I spent the time on it).
3) Every single county & block i know of and have been on in Iowa, and I've been a lot of places over the years has well known poachers and vast poaching problems. Its unfortunately pretty extreme & common among most the state unless you have your own private Gestapo which some neighborhoods do have.
4) I've said a million times, I wish the limited DNR time was spent going after the most egregious poachers vs the petty crap. For example, the guy poaching 10-20 bucks a year out the car window or running a poaching ring VS the guy who shot a buck with a bow or was out hunting without a tag that winds up in a huge investigation - each is bad but with our limited time, we need the most bang for the buck and go after the worst offenders. I'd easily give up a lot of enforcement on a multitude of "petty things" as I see them (like a guy I know being staked out & ticketed for no orange on his blind) to take that effort to go after the nastiest among us. Kinda like the cops skipping past the guy doing 43 in a 35 and working on the Meth house instead. We need a change of focus & resources.
5) Robo-Bucks are simple, concrete in evidence like I said, easy to set-up & operate, would get requests from problem areas all over the state. How great would it be if you had a group of poachers roaming your blocks constantly, then you were able to call the DNR to set up Robo-bucks there - pinch the guys, DNR pulls in huge fines that profit DNR and the most egregious go down. I had a case down in SE iowa where at least 6-7 nights in a row, some punks kept plugging them, I finally caught them myself, took photos, did all I could and not a whole lot happened after.

Some long discussions need to take place on some NEW tactics and goals of our DNR with its limited budget and limited CO's. We need some new laws with huge fines and we need Robo-Bucks in every county or every few county & they need to be legislated to be a profitable item and anywhere I know of in most the southern half of the state, we could have a hay-day nailing horrible poachers and bringing in massive, huge amounts of $. Solves a heck of a lot of problems at once.

I will be giving to TIP. Sorry on the rant & side track. Have done it and plan on getting more TIP signs.
 
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I know a dnr officer that does not not put orange at all on
his ground blind during shotgun season, I just keep my mouth shut because it's not a big deal! I am 100 percent against poaching of any kind, but who makes the final call who is listening to legal hunters? I might want to send naked pics of my self to my wife while in the blind! Or viva versa! Should it be ok for the dnr to intercept those pictures just because they think I'm doing something wrong!!!!!! NO In my book!
 
I also think there should be 10 times the trespass fines that there are! Anyone can trespass 10 times for 75.00 per time! That's a fricken joke!!!!
 
I might want to send naked pics of my self to my wife while in the blind! Or viva versa! Should it be ok for the dnr to intercept those pictures just because they think I'm doing something wrong!!!!!! NO In my book!


But would you still wear your orange hat to stay legal????
 
I also think there should be 10 times the trespass fines that there are! Anyone can trespass 10 times for 75.00 per time! That's a fricken joke!!!!

I think a trespassing fine should be a stepped up penalty system. First offense 200.00, second 500.00, third 1,000.00 and a weekend in jail, etc.
 
Skip it's funny you bring up the Robo buck conversation. I spoke to the officers at the classic last year about this same thing.

In a nutshell, we have found 5 dead deer in 3 years on one of the farms with their heads cut off laying in the fields 20-100 yds off the road. So I asked about setting up a sting and was basically informed that they don't or won't do that in this part of the state.

So this is where it gets interesting... I asked about buying/making my own and if I could take care of things myself. He basically told me I could, but could easily be looking at "entrapment" if they wanted to fight it.

This is how screwed up things are in Iowa as far as poaching and trespassing. I almost feel like the "bad guys" have more rights to do what they do, than the "good guys" have rights to protect what is theirs..

Strange to me for sure. Our DNR officers are under staffed and under funded imo.
 
There is one or more cases going through the court systems right now challenging law enforcements right to sieze and search ones cell phone without a search warrant, reasonable cause, or permission. I for one do not believe they have the right without one of those. It is clear they dont have the right to search my car or my wife's purse without one so I think the phone should be the same.

By the way, just having a phone and being a suspect does not warent reasonable cause. If the person was seen on their phone while committing a crime then probably.

I am all for giving to TIP and them having resources available but only want them able to use them when the constitution allows. I'll donate to TIP and hope the courts protect our rights properly.
 
Skip it's funny you bring up the Robo buck conversation. I spoke to the officers at the classic last year about this same thing.

In a nutshell, we have found 5 dead deer in 3 years on one of the farms with their heads cut off laying in the fields 20-100 yds off the road. So I asked about setting up a sting and was basically informed that they don't or won't do that in this part of the state.

So this is where it gets interesting... I asked about buying/making my own and if I could take care of things myself. He basically told me I could, but could easily be looking at "entrapment" if they wanted to fight it.

This is how screwed up things are in Iowa as far as poaching and trespassing. I almost feel like the "bad guys" have more rights to do what they do, than the "good guys" have rights to protect what is theirs..

Strange to me for sure. Our DNR officers are under staffed and under funded imo.

This WILL BE a bigger issue coming up. This needs some organization, justification and it needs to be presented to DNR & Legislature. This could be a Bill that does go through the Legislature and a major change could happen. It would be the biggest slam against the worst poachers in Iowa EVER. We're going to see more on this.
 
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