What's your opinion on blood trailing dogs?

[letemgrow]

So then this shouldn't be a last resort option to find the deer, since other options will negatively affect the dog's ability to track? Just throwing out questions to think about.

It can be used as a last resort. Its just not as effective if people have been tromping all over grid searching for the same deer.

I'd use it as a first resort if a tracking dog was readily available. The more lethal/effective the better IMO. A 223 is acceptable for MO rifle season..I'll keep using my .264 mag to be sure tho. A trailing dog is the same thing. Found many deer on my own, but I'll take the dog 10 out of 10 times to be sure if available.

More teaching/training for the dog and a more sure trail job for you.

 

[iabwhntr]

So then this shouldn't be a last resort option to find the deer, since other options will negatively affect the dog's ability to track? Just throwing out questions to think about.

That's a really good question.

 

[hoosierhunter]

That's a really good question.

If it's a complete gutter ball I would call in the tracker immediately. If I'm looking for my biggest deer I'm not inclined to doing something to risk losing him.

Obviously that statement could be debated because I said big buck. Right or wrong I'm going after the doe on my own first. Yes it's not right but just being honest that my priority is higher on a giant buck as opposed to a doe. I'm not saying the doe isn't important but if I'm paying a tracking dog say 500.00 bucks those horns are worth that to me personally.

 

[deersniffer]

The main thing that will cause a problem for a tracking dog is if the area has been stomped over prior to the handler and dog arriving. This takes the scent spores and disperses them all over the area and confuses the dog.
In states where tracking with a leashed dog is legal and you have access to one; If a person shoots a deer and starts to track it and the blood trail ends, I would recommend marking that spot as a place to start the dog, then backing out. That way the area has not been tromped all over making it hard for the dog to get a line. As we all know there are times when the shot looked good and the blood trail starts out decent, but then suddenly seems to end. This would be a good time to use a tracking dog. A dog does not need visible blood to track a deer.

 

[1Rhino]

A buddy turned me onto this forum a couple days ago. I read through these comments and there are some misconceptions, but most of the folks understand the reasoning for having a tracking dog. I couldn't make it to the whitetail classic, but if you did, the United Blood Trackers booth should have offered you a lot of good information. Locally, there is also a good facebook page titled Iowa Blood Trackers. There is some good information there.

Just to clear up a couple of things that were mentioned: We do not turn our dogs (we own a registered wire hair dachshund, so do a couple of other local guys) loose on anything for tracking. We do use a leash or "tether" and the dog is completely under our control. We do not use our dogs to hunt or "push" deer. I can't even begin to convince you that that is the absolute furthest thing from our mind, I say that because we have children or friends children involved in hunting deer and we try to convey to them how to ethically pursue deer.

We DO anticipate a phone call from a buddy or a buddies buddy saying they lost track of a deer they wounded.



I can't comment on the trespassing issues, but, I would make sure that the property owners ground isn't presently being hunted and an accident happens. Iowa had a safe year last year, no reason to be a statistic.

I endorsed this long before we got a dog, because it made sense. Our dog came from an Illinois family. This family assisted in the pioneering efforts to legalized leashed tracking in Illinois. An unfortunate death left the dog with no owner. And so now our interest, mostly my sons hunting interests, can continue to use this dog for how it was raised.

I don't have much other input. I don't do this for myself, but rather my son who is becoming a great outdoorsman. Last night he wanted to start shooting clay pigeons with his bow but it was getting dark.

Sorry for the beginners rant.

 

[Daver]

A buddy turned me onto this forum a couple days ago. I read through these comments and there are some misconceptions, but most of the folks understand the reasoning for having a tracking dog. I couldn't make it to the whitetail classic, but if you did, the United Blood Trackers booth should have offered you a lot of good information. Locally, there is also a good facebook page titled Iowa Blood Trackers. There is some good information there.

Just to clear up a couple of things that were mentioned: We do not turn our dogs (we own a registered wire hair dachshund, so do a couple of other local guys) loose on anything for tracking. We do use a leash or "tether" and the dog is completely under our control. We do not use our dogs to hunt or "push" deer. I can't even begin to convince you that that is the absolute furthest thing from our mind, I say that because we have children or friends children involved in hunting deer and we try to convey to them how to ethically pursue deer.

We DO anticipate a phone call from a buddy or a buddies buddy saying they lost track of a deer they wounded.



I can't comment on the trespassing issues, but, I would make sure that the property owners ground isn't presently being hunted and an accident happens. Iowa had a safe year last year, no reason to be a statistic.

I endorsed this long before we got a dog, because it made sense. Our dog came from an Illinois family. This family assisted in the pioneering efforts to legalized leashed tracking in Illinois. An unfortunate death left the dog with no owner. And so now our interest, mostly my sons hunting interests, can continue to use this dog for how it was raised.

I don't have much other input. I don't do this for myself, but rather my son who is becoming a great outdoorsman. Last night he wanted to start shooting clay pigeons with his bow but it was getting dark.

Sorry for the beginners rant.

No apologies necessary, that wasn't a rant at all, I appreciate your perspective. Honest question...what do you, as a strong supporter of allowing tracking dogs in Iowa, propose to address the concern that myself and others have that people that are NOT like you would potentially abuse a law allowing tracking dogs?

By abuse, I mean someone that would take any old dog on a leash and walk through a timber they do not have permission to be in and then when/if confronted, say that they are tracking a deer, etc.

 

[mightymouse]

So then this shouldn't be a last resort option to find the deer, since other options will negatively affect the dog's ability to track? Just throwing out questions to think about.

Like Deersniffer said, you could go right to the dog from the first drop of blood if you wanted to or you could start yourself and then once blood is lost call in the dog. The thing you want to avoid is duplicated effort between people and the dog. By that I mean you ideally want the dog to take up the track at the last point that humans tracked to, that will avoid humans unknowingly disturbing the track and making it harder on the dog. As Deersniffer said, if you stop tracking and call in a dog the handler will usually start at the point you left off so the dog is on a fresh, unmolested track.

That being said if you are tracking a deer, lose blood and do a bit of unsuccessful grid work before stopping it doesn't mean you have now made it impossible on the dog. You have made it more difficult but that dog will still be able to do a way better job than you or I could to pick that track back up and find the deer.

 

[Monsterbuck]

No apologies necessary, that wasn't a rant at all, I appreciate your perspective. Honest question...what do you, as a strong supporter of allowing tracking dogs in Iowa, propose to address the concern that myself and others have that people that are NOT like you would potentially abuse a law allowing tracking dogs?

By abuse, I mean someone that would take any old dog on a leash and walk through a timber they do not have permission to be in and then when/if confronted, say that they are tracking a deer, etc.

Again how is that any change to what we currently have? Right now a person has the right to track wounded game without permission without a dog. A person who wants to trespass and potentially drive deer doesn't need a dog to do it they can just walk through saying they are tracking a wounded deer. Those people aren't sitting around just waiting for legislation to pass so they can now drag the family dog through the woods. They don't need a prop, it serves them no purpose.

 

[Daver]

Again how is that any change to what we currently have? Right now a person has the right to track wounded game without permission without a dog. A person who wants to trespass and potentially drive deer doesn't need a dog to do it they can just walk through saying they are tracking a wounded deer. Those people aren't sitting around just waiting for legislation to pass so they can now drag the family dog through the woods. They don't need a prop, it serves them no purpose.

1. Now a person can track game without permission, but there needs to be a trail to follow. Someone that says they are on a track where there is no track can be charged with trespassing. With a dog assisted track there may not be a visible blood trail. This law would give them a prop that we do not need to hand to trespassers.

2. Even without #1 above, I am totally against additional laws that potentially give cover to those with bad intentions in terms of trespassing.


Why aren't the ardent supporters of dog assisted tracking willing to include a provision that there needs to be permission from the land owner? I am not concerned about the real dog trackers mind you, but if you cannot comprehend how some would likely use this potential rule then I can only assume you have not personally experienced a rogue neighbor. One that would use such a rule to walk across someone else's property from the time the first deer season opened until the last one closed.

 

[Monsterbuck]

So I take it YOU have a rogue neighbor and you are not having luck dealing with him?

I think if that's the case then you need to find a way to deal with your neighbor. I doubt anyone will change your mind on anything if the perspective you have on any issue is how can your neighbor use it to further violate the law and aggravate you. That is really sad and I feel for you that your situation is so bad on your property.

I can only speak from my side of the issue which is from a dedicated bowhunter who is frustrated that I do not have the option to seek help when I am unable to find a wounded deer.

Bash me for being a poor shot, a lousy tracker, whatever the internet forum experts will blame, but I have lost deer in the past and to not have the option of seeking the assistance of a tracking dog which would significantly increase my chances of recovering a lost deer because someone has a neighbor they feel will abuse it because they already abuse laws is just sad.

 

[Daver]

So I take it YOU have a rogue neighbor and you are not having luck dealing with him?

I think if that's the case then you need to find a way to deal with your neighbor. I doubt anyone will change your mind on anything if the perspective you have on any issue is how can your neighbor use it to further violate the law and aggravate you. That is really sad and I feel for you that your situation is so bad on your property.

I can only speak from my side of the issue which is from a dedicated bowhunter who is frustrated that I do not have the option to seek help when I am unable to find a wounded deer.

Bash me for being a poor shot, a lousy tracker, whatever the internet forum experts will blame, but I have lost deer in the past and to not have the option of seeking the assistance of a tracking dog which would significantly increase my chances of recovering a lost deer because someone has a neighbor they feel will abuse it because they already abuse laws is just sad.

As I wrote earlier in the thread, I had a rogue neighbor who thankfully is no longer anywhere near my property. I have not bashed you or anyone else, but I will again ask...why don't you support a provision to acquire permission from the landowner prior to entering their property?

 

[Monsterbuck]

I was not talking about you Daver, but there have been others on here whose argument is that if you need the help of a dog you are a poor excuse of a bowhunter.

I'm glad to hear your problem neighbor has moved on. Sounds like a bad situation.

I would have no problem requiring landowner permission. In fact I would have no problem rewriting the current law that allows a person to track a wounded deer across property lines without permission.

I do think though that it would be incongruous to have a law on the books that allows you to trail your deer across a property line but then a different law that does not allow you to do so if you use a dog on the recovery. I think it should be either one or the other not different rules for different hunters.

 

[deersniffer]

The petition that was submitted does specify permission would need to be obtained prior to tracking on private property with a dog. It also states the DNR officer in the area being tracked will need to be notified prior to doing the track. Other things will need to be worked out prior to this thing being allowed. I am planning on meeting with Fishbonker soon to discuss each others thoughts and concerns on this. This will be an unofficial get together to communicate. I appreciate him taking the time to get together and discuss this.

 

[iabwhntr]

I was not talking about you Daver, but there have been others on here whose argument is that if you need the help of a dog you are a poor excuse of a bowhunter.

Do not take something I said and twist it ever do slightly to make it inflammatory. It shows a weak character trait to use it in that you think it justifies your behaviors or somehow adds support to your argument.

I'm pretty sure your talking about my comments concerning people losing the skill of tracking a wounded animal.

NOWHERE did I EVER say anyone would be a poor excuse of a bow hunter for using dogs!!! Those are your words, not mine.

My concerns are still the same and are still valid. However, I don't have the level of opposition I did before.

 

[Monsterbuck]

The petition that was submitted does specify permission would need to be obtained prior to tracking on private property with a dog. It also states the DNR officer in the area being tracked will need to be notified prior to doing the track. Other things will need to be worked out prior to this thing being allowed. I am planning on meeting with Fishbonker soon to discuss each others thoughts and concerns on this. This will be an unofficial get together to communicate. I appreciate him taking the time to get together and discuss this.

I would actually disagree with the part about contacting the DNR officer. I have tried to contact a DNR officer in the past and could never get a hold of him. Those guys are spread thin I know and likely don't answer their phones reliably. At least my experience in trying to contact them has not been good.

If I had to speak with a DNR officer every time before I tracked a wounded deer there would be a lot of deer rotted wasting in the woods.

 

[Monsterbuck]

Do not take something I said and twist it ever do slightly to make it inflammatory. It shows a weak character trait to use it in that you think it justifies your behaviors or somehow adds support to your argument.

I'm pretty sure your talking about my comments concerning people losing the skill of tracking a wounded animal.

NOWHERE did I EVER say anyone would be a poor excuse of a bow hunter for using dogs!!! Those are your words, not mine.

My concerns are still the same and are still valid. However, I don't have the level of opposition I did before.

You are correct I was paraphrasing. What you said was that if you couldn't track deer you shouldn't shoot them and should quit hunting and play pool instead.

No way to describe that attitude but critical and condescending. A trait which shows who the one is with a weak character.

 

[iabwhntr]

I used a hyperbole to express my feeling that if you don't practice shooting your bow you should expect to make poor shots.
And the logic that follows is that if you haven't done what needs to be done in order to make an ethical shot on an animal, then you shouldn't be taking that shot.

 

[Monsterbuck]

I used a hyperbole to express my feeling that if you don't practice shooting your bow you should expect to make poor shots.
And the logic that follows is that if you haven't done what needs to be done in order to make an ethical shot on an animal, then you shouldn't be taking that shot.

Unfortunately things happen when shooting at a live target and even the best shooters have deer that can travel some distance before expiring

I am not a tournament level archer. I do practice and shoot several 3D shoots each year. Gauging by 3D shoot scores I would say I am above average compared to other bowhunters. That said I have lost several deer over the course of my bowhunting career. I suppose you could say that every one of those was my fault in one way or another but deer do move, arrows get deflected by unseen twigs, distances can be misjudged in the heat of the moment so no matter how much you practice things don't always go as planned.

As far as tracking I will admit to being just average in skills although I have improved significantly from when I started. Blood tracking is a skill hard to learn outside of hands on experience and I have never had someone who was skilled at it to teach me along the way. I am smart enough to know that sometimes I need help so if you're against dogs and are a skilled tracker maybe you would be willing to lend a hand to help another hunter out.

 

[iabwhntr]

Unfortunately things happen when shooting at a live target and even the best shooters have deer that can travel some distance before expiring

I am not a tournament level archer. I do practice and shoot several 3D shoots each year. Gauging by 3D shoot scores I would say I am above average compared to other bowhunters. That said I have lost several deer over the course of my bowhunting career. I suppose you could say that every one of those was my fault in one way or another but deer do move, arrows get deflected by unseen twigs, distances can be misjudged in the heat of the moment so no matter how much you practice things don't always go as planned.

As far as tracking I will admit to being just average in skills although I have improved significantly from when I started. Blood tracking is a skill hard to learn outside of hands on experience and I have never had someone who was skilled at it to teach me along the way. I am smart enough to know that sometimes I need help so if you're against dogs and are a skilled tracker maybe you would be willing to lend a hand to help another hunter out.

This has been the crux of my argument. The tracking skills you possess now (and will hopefully pass on) were learned because you had to. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if you had access to a dog those skills would not be at the level they are today. I maintain you are the tracker you are today precisely because you had no other choice.

Have you seen the catch phrase for Bowtech's package bows? R.AK.- ready-aim-kill.
You and I realize whats required to humanely harvest deer, but a newb won't. Nor will that person need to developed the skills needed to find that deer that was just shot. Why would they when they can call in the dogs after they send that arrow down range. Or empty their gun.

I don't claim to be a skilled tracker. But I do expect to get better. And I'd like to think that someday if/when I needed help tracking a deer the person I asked would have those skills to offer and not just the phone number of the county dog tracker.

 

[chipterp]

Is anyone really gonna pay $300 everytime you shoot a deer because its easier than trying to blood trail it. Some guys are making it sound like everytime a deer gets shot there gonna call in a dog.