My thoughts on leasing
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singlecoyote
Proud member of the IBA
Need to remember, there is a difference between just "leasing" and leasing by an outfitter.
I'm not advocating either, I have never leased, just stating that there is a huge difference.
Leasing by outfitters (not just a couple buddies wanting a hunting spot) is the demise of a great hunting state.
So how do we keep Outfitters out of Iowa?
I'm not advocating either, I have never leased, just stating that there is a huge difference.
Leasing by outfitters (not just a couple buddies wanting a hunting spot) is the demise of a great hunting state.
So how do we keep Outfitters out of Iowa?
Typical250
Banned
I'm tiered...........
Read the entire thread for the first time just now & my initial reaction is that Kaare hit the nail on the head for me. I hunt public and private but all the private ground is based on a good relationship & a handshake. They know I will do anything in my power to help them if needed & they will help me as well. Grew up hunting squirrels on family owned farms with my Dad. Branched out into ducks, pheasants & deer on my own. Most of those family owned farms are now gone. So, if all the landowners told me no more free hunting because someone else is willing to pay I say thank you very much for the years of fun. I'll see you around & if you ever need a hand don't forget to call. Then I'll look for another place and spend more time on public. If it comes down to it I will quit deer hunting before I pay to lease. Too many other priorities in life for me & when you face one of life's true challenges it gets put in perspective real fast. Hunting opportunities will come & go but family, friends and your relationships with others are what should matter the most & in the end will be how you are judged.
Maggs
Maggs
esmd
New Member
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: teeroy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">read the last post the esmd put up. the more people that lease land in iowa, the closer we get to what they have out there. the longer we can delay that, the better </div></div>
Teeroy, the problem is, I don't know how you can stop it. Money talks, and when someone offers a landowner big dollars, most landowners can't say no, at least around here. One thing my club does, is we've only leased land we previously hunted for free, or land that the prior lessee chose to not renew the lease. We've never tried to outbid another person or group and steal a piece of property out from under them. Unfortunately, not everyone does that.
I wonder sometimes if leasing is the cause of the problem, or the symptom of a larger problem (hunting becoming a business instead of a recreational activity for a lot of people). Someone else made a good point, we're all guilty of that by enabling the business (hunting shows, outfitters, magazines, books, etc).
Again, I just don't know how you stop it, it's the reality of the world today.
Teeroy, the problem is, I don't know how you can stop it. Money talks, and when someone offers a landowner big dollars, most landowners can't say no, at least around here. One thing my club does, is we've only leased land we previously hunted for free, or land that the prior lessee chose to not renew the lease. We've never tried to outbid another person or group and steal a piece of property out from under them. Unfortunately, not everyone does that.
I wonder sometimes if leasing is the cause of the problem, or the symptom of a larger problem (hunting becoming a business instead of a recreational activity for a lot of people). Someone else made a good point, we're all guilty of that by enabling the business (hunting shows, outfitters, magazines, books, etc).
Again, I just don't know how you stop it, it's the reality of the world today.
Hardcorehunter
UL Shelter/Stove Geek
Maryland must suck. Why live somewhere that puts you in a circumstance like that? Move west young man.
Shovelbuck
Active Member
So...............what do you guys think of the Huskers chances this year of going to a bowl game?
Ghost and RBB have it exactly right. Hunting opportunities for the children of Iowa are what need to be protected.
Let me first say that I understand why people lease and why they feel they have to or need to. It's the same reasoning that NR have for buying or leasing land in Iowa and other States. It is to try to improve or protect their hunting experiences. I really feel that if those who lease would stop for one second and think about someone other than themselves they might be able to see the big picture.
I'm not singling out THA4 and Double A for any reason other than you both say you lease. Can I just ask you guys a question?
Double A: I think you posted that you lease your property for $1500.00. I am guessing, but I would bet that was for 120-160 acres. I would guess $8.00-$12.00 would be around the average lease price in Iowa. I have heard that in Pike County, Illinois land leases are going for $40.00-$100.00 per acre depending on size and location with the average lease running around $60.00/acre. That would be $7200.00 - $9600.00 for the right to hunt 120-160 acres per year or you could think about it as a $600.00 - $800.00 per month payment.
Double A/THA4: My question is what would you be willing to pay/acre to lease hunting rights? Would you pay $60.00/acre if that was the going rate? Now I don't want to answer but to just think about it for a while. Think about how much you could really afford to spend and how many acres you could secure if lease prices were like they are in West Central, Illinois.
The point I'm trying to make is at what price would Double A, THA4, or the average Iowan decide to throw in the towel so to speak. No matter how much money an average guy in Iowa makes or is willing to pay, if someone wants your lease they will out bid you. The guy leasing in Pike County for $80.00/acre who also wants a lease in Iowa thinks $60.00/acre is a bargin and is willing to pay $80.00/acre. So after loosing your larger lease you decide to lease 40 acres. That way you can afford it. Then the guy that leases all the ground around you decides he wants the 40 acres you lease because he has seen a couple big bucks hanging around on it and really what's another $5,000.00 when he is already paying $150,000.00 in leases a year to run his outfitting business. After a while you can't afford to lease ground in your home State. This scenario is not a hypothetical possibility. This very situation is happening all over the country and you don't have to look very far away to find it. The average Joe in West Central, Illinois can't find a place to hunt.
I know that this is hard for some to believe or to understand here in Iowa but this big money has been floating around for years in other States and it is knocking on our door. Look at what esmd posted about 300-500 acre tracts leasing for $25,000 per year. Just to give you another example I know a guy that pays $70,000.00 per year for a duck lease in Arkansas and doesn't think twice about it.
One thing is for sure and that is once a landowner has been payed for hunting rights it is almost a guarantee no one will ever get to hunt on that property again without money changing hands. The more the landowner gets the more he wants. The more his neighbor gets the more he wants and so on. When your only tie to the landowner is money then the amount of money payed is the only thing that will matter to the owner at the end of the day.
I know a landowner that has 320 acres of farm ground and they cash rented 160 acres to guy (A) and the other 160 to guy (B). Both were paying $125.00/acre. Well guy (A) was greedy and wanted to farm all 320 acres so he approached the owner and offered $185.00/acre for the 320 acres. The owner said well...guy (B) has been farming that 160 for over 15 years so I have to offer it to them for that price. Needless to say guy (B) said he would pay $185.00/acre so the only thing guy (A) accomplised by being greedy was to raise his own cash rent price by $60.00 per acre. This was 4-5 years ago before $5.00 corn and $14.00 beans. Moral of this story is don't get too greedy because sometimes your greed will cost you a lot more than it returns! So before you approach the landowner that lets you hunt for free and offer them cash for sole hunting rights you might want to think about how much the other guy/guys that hunt his property are willing to pay. You might just be the guy that looses a place to hunt rather than getting sole access!
Another thing to remember is that this leasing of hunting rights relates to all species. Once the hunting rights have been leased by someone who really only wants to hunt deer. That land is tied up and no one gets to hunt pheasants, quail, ducks, geese, rabbits, coyotes, ect on that property.
Once you have to "pay to play" the whole picture changes and THE BIG PICTURE is not a pretty one for the average Joe or his kids and ultimatly the hunting heritage that we grew up loving and cherishing.
Unfortunatly, I am young enough that I will probably be around long enough to see all of this greed lead to the end of many of our great hunting and shooting traditions.
Those of you who are average Joe's better be calling your legislator's this week to help stop transferrable tags/ NR landowner's from getting guaranteed tags or to be given preference in the draw/ and to stop any increase in NR tags quotas.
Otherwise, all you die hard average Joe hunters will have to move out West with HCH because 2/3 of the Western 11 states is public hunting ground!
Let me first say that I understand why people lease and why they feel they have to or need to. It's the same reasoning that NR have for buying or leasing land in Iowa and other States. It is to try to improve or protect their hunting experiences. I really feel that if those who lease would stop for one second and think about someone other than themselves they might be able to see the big picture.
I'm not singling out THA4 and Double A for any reason other than you both say you lease. Can I just ask you guys a question?
Double A: I think you posted that you lease your property for $1500.00. I am guessing, but I would bet that was for 120-160 acres. I would guess $8.00-$12.00 would be around the average lease price in Iowa. I have heard that in Pike County, Illinois land leases are going for $40.00-$100.00 per acre depending on size and location with the average lease running around $60.00/acre. That would be $7200.00 - $9600.00 for the right to hunt 120-160 acres per year or you could think about it as a $600.00 - $800.00 per month payment.
Double A/THA4: My question is what would you be willing to pay/acre to lease hunting rights? Would you pay $60.00/acre if that was the going rate? Now I don't want to answer but to just think about it for a while. Think about how much you could really afford to spend and how many acres you could secure if lease prices were like they are in West Central, Illinois.
The point I'm trying to make is at what price would Double A, THA4, or the average Iowan decide to throw in the towel so to speak. No matter how much money an average guy in Iowa makes or is willing to pay, if someone wants your lease they will out bid you. The guy leasing in Pike County for $80.00/acre who also wants a lease in Iowa thinks $60.00/acre is a bargin and is willing to pay $80.00/acre. So after loosing your larger lease you decide to lease 40 acres. That way you can afford it. Then the guy that leases all the ground around you decides he wants the 40 acres you lease because he has seen a couple big bucks hanging around on it and really what's another $5,000.00 when he is already paying $150,000.00 in leases a year to run his outfitting business. After a while you can't afford to lease ground in your home State. This scenario is not a hypothetical possibility. This very situation is happening all over the country and you don't have to look very far away to find it. The average Joe in West Central, Illinois can't find a place to hunt.
I know that this is hard for some to believe or to understand here in Iowa but this big money has been floating around for years in other States and it is knocking on our door. Look at what esmd posted about 300-500 acre tracts leasing for $25,000 per year. Just to give you another example I know a guy that pays $70,000.00 per year for a duck lease in Arkansas and doesn't think twice about it.
One thing is for sure and that is once a landowner has been payed for hunting rights it is almost a guarantee no one will ever get to hunt on that property again without money changing hands. The more the landowner gets the more he wants. The more his neighbor gets the more he wants and so on. When your only tie to the landowner is money then the amount of money payed is the only thing that will matter to the owner at the end of the day.
I know a landowner that has 320 acres of farm ground and they cash rented 160 acres to guy (A) and the other 160 to guy (B). Both were paying $125.00/acre. Well guy (A) was greedy and wanted to farm all 320 acres so he approached the owner and offered $185.00/acre for the 320 acres. The owner said well...guy (B) has been farming that 160 for over 15 years so I have to offer it to them for that price. Needless to say guy (B) said he would pay $185.00/acre so the only thing guy (A) accomplised by being greedy was to raise his own cash rent price by $60.00 per acre. This was 4-5 years ago before $5.00 corn and $14.00 beans. Moral of this story is don't get too greedy because sometimes your greed will cost you a lot more than it returns! So before you approach the landowner that lets you hunt for free and offer them cash for sole hunting rights you might want to think about how much the other guy/guys that hunt his property are willing to pay. You might just be the guy that looses a place to hunt rather than getting sole access!
Another thing to remember is that this leasing of hunting rights relates to all species. Once the hunting rights have been leased by someone who really only wants to hunt deer. That land is tied up and no one gets to hunt pheasants, quail, ducks, geese, rabbits, coyotes, ect on that property.
Once you have to "pay to play" the whole picture changes and THE BIG PICTURE is not a pretty one for the average Joe or his kids and ultimatly the hunting heritage that we grew up loving and cherishing.
Unfortunatly, I am young enough that I will probably be around long enough to see all of this greed lead to the end of many of our great hunting and shooting traditions.
Those of you who are average Joe's better be calling your legislator's this week to help stop transferrable tags/ NR landowner's from getting guaranteed tags or to be given preference in the draw/ and to stop any increase in NR tags quotas.
Otherwise, all you die hard average Joe hunters will have to move out West with HCH because 2/3 of the Western 11 states is public hunting ground!
esmd
New Member
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hardcorehunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maryland must suck. Why live somewhere that puts you in a circumstance like that? Move west young man. </div></div>
As I said before, I'd seriously consider it. Problem is, their's family issues at play, my parents, siblings, extended family, friends, etc. I could probably reconcile that, but my wife is another story. So far, she's having none of it. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif
As I said before, I'd seriously consider it. Problem is, their's family issues at play, my parents, siblings, extended family, friends, etc. I could probably reconcile that, but my wife is another story. So far, she's having none of it. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif
The problem in Iowa isn't just people leasing ground. The problem is that when they lease it they kick all of the neighbors off of it so they can try and make their own little deer heaven. What they don't realize is that if they still let all of the regulars on to hunt then they could gain access to soooo much more land. I hunt you, you hunt me kinda deal. Do it with a hand shake or don't do it all.
Doubleaarc hery
New Member
Iowa QDM
My lease is actually for 220 acres! And here is the reality guys, I didn't steal my lease, or take someone else's property! I lease it from a network! This subject has gotten me to the point of regretting even posting, but hey, I believe in my choices, so I will give more information!
here is what it breaks down to! I choose not to hunt on Public. I guess I enjoy hunting enough to spend money, how much, i don't know. But If I could afford the 100s of thousands to purchase, would i still be a bad person?
So I guess here it is for me!!
All of you who are willing to help out farmers to get hunting rights, please step forward. iwould like to keep my money in my pockets, so please pm me, or post here and I will come join you on your hunting land!
All of you who own land, and at me as a problem, please step forward, i will join you on hunting your land as well! Hell, I'll even mail you a card at Christmas! maybe i can come down and plow your drive out for you!! Would that be suffiecent?
Guess I will and see how many offers I get for a Free hunting spot! I figure $hit why go beat on doors, here is a spot where thousands of hunters who hunt/own thousand of acres meet daily to discuss hunting, if I can't get a place to hunt here, then where in the heck woud I find one!
I'll look forward to helping someone out this year, so I too can have a place to hunt!!
OHHHHHHHH and for all of you who talk about the future being for kids, and all that good stuff, I thought I would mention that on my LEASE this year, my wife killed her first deer, A guy who hadn't shot a deer in 15 years got back into our sport, and Damn almost forgot, I am taking two lucky kids out during a youth season for a free filmed and guided hunt through a drawing at the shop!!
But I guess I am helping ruin hunting in Iowa, not educating??? Holy crap, I guess I am the one who doesn't have a clue!!!
karre, the 40 arce section across from my lease is selling for 6800 an acre and their is a tiny creek in it and the rest is farm ground! That is almost 280,000 for a place to put on stand! That is why I had talked with you before in AWWW when I saw the 320 arces in canda for like 180,000!!!
Well I guess I will have to try and bow out of this subject again!
Opps, forgot to add this, yes IOWAQDM, I am watching out for myself by leasing, but I can see the big picture!! Here is the picture I see, you offer me, my firends, and my family a place to hunt, and I won't lease, and if you don't then I guess you are just as selfish as me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, I know I am coming off attacking and do not mean to, but this is touchy to me! As I am sure it is to many others! This topic just really strikes a bone with me and icould argue for days!!!
Oh, and Elkhunter! I have emailed lots of letters!! And continue too!!! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
My lease is actually for 220 acres! And here is the reality guys, I didn't steal my lease, or take someone else's property! I lease it from a network! This subject has gotten me to the point of regretting even posting, but hey, I believe in my choices, so I will give more information!
here is what it breaks down to! I choose not to hunt on Public. I guess I enjoy hunting enough to spend money, how much, i don't know. But If I could afford the 100s of thousands to purchase, would i still be a bad person?
So I guess here it is for me!!
All of you who are willing to help out farmers to get hunting rights, please step forward. iwould like to keep my money in my pockets, so please pm me, or post here and I will come join you on your hunting land!
All of you who own land, and at me as a problem, please step forward, i will join you on hunting your land as well! Hell, I'll even mail you a card at Christmas! maybe i can come down and plow your drive out for you!! Would that be suffiecent?
Guess I will and see how many offers I get for a Free hunting spot! I figure $hit why go beat on doors, here is a spot where thousands of hunters who hunt/own thousand of acres meet daily to discuss hunting, if I can't get a place to hunt here, then where in the heck woud I find one!
I'll look forward to helping someone out this year, so I too can have a place to hunt!!
OHHHHHHHH and for all of you who talk about the future being for kids, and all that good stuff, I thought I would mention that on my LEASE this year, my wife killed her first deer, A guy who hadn't shot a deer in 15 years got back into our sport, and Damn almost forgot, I am taking two lucky kids out during a youth season for a free filmed and guided hunt through a drawing at the shop!!
But I guess I am helping ruin hunting in Iowa, not educating??? Holy crap, I guess I am the one who doesn't have a clue!!!
karre, the 40 arce section across from my lease is selling for 6800 an acre and their is a tiny creek in it and the rest is farm ground! That is almost 280,000 for a place to put on stand! That is why I had talked with you before in AWWW when I saw the 320 arces in canda for like 180,000!!!
Well I guess I will have to try and bow out of this subject again!
Opps, forgot to add this, yes IOWAQDM, I am watching out for myself by leasing, but I can see the big picture!! Here is the picture I see, you offer me, my firends, and my family a place to hunt, and I won't lease, and if you don't then I guess you are just as selfish as me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, I know I am coming off attacking and do not mean to, but this is touchy to me! As I am sure it is to many others! This topic just really strikes a bone with me and icould argue for days!!!
Oh, and Elkhunter! I have emailed lots of letters!! And continue too!!! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
gundog870
Premium Platinum Member
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shovelbuck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So...............what do you guys think of the Huskers chances this year of going to a bowl game?</div></div>
I have resisted the temptation of burning all my gear..... i am on edge man.. bring back the 90s. I gotta get you a pm when I get time jay i have made some advancements. pretty jacked!!
I have resisted the temptation of burning all my gear..... i am on edge man.. bring back the 90s. I gotta get you a pm when I get time jay i have made some advancements. pretty jacked!!
GregBickal
New Member
Lets face it, with urban sprawl, even private hunting land is dwindeling fast. Some really nice spots to hunt out by me recently became off limits to gun hunters because of expanding city boundries. Deer populations are way high in the area, and right next to the interstate where we see alot of car/deer accidents.
Whats the DNR's plan for aquiring public land for hunting? Do they use a certain % of the hunting funds to aquire land? If not, they should be. Up the doe tag price from $12 to $15 and use that extra $3 a tag to buy more public land.
And what about no-hunt preserves, there is a 500 acre preserve near me that butts up to the 500 acres of public hunting land. The deer all hide out in the preserve because of the hunting pressure. Those preserves should be open to deer hunting only.
Whats the DNR's plan for aquiring public land for hunting? Do they use a certain % of the hunting funds to aquire land? If not, they should be. Up the doe tag price from $12 to $15 and use that extra $3 a tag to buy more public land.
And what about no-hunt preserves, there is a 500 acre preserve near me that butts up to the 500 acres of public hunting land. The deer all hide out in the preserve because of the hunting pressure. Those preserves should be open to deer hunting only.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Whats the DNR's plan for aquiring public land for hunting? Do they use a certain % of the hunting funds to aquire land? If not, they should be. Up the doe tag price from $12 to $15 and use that extra $3 a tag to buy more public land.
</div></div>
The DNR is barely getting by. That's why we need the Sustainable Funding bill which was just drawn up. THEN you WILL see some land bought! Flood the legislature with letters and contacts and spread the word to every single person you know!
</div></div>
The DNR is barely getting by. That's why we need the Sustainable Funding bill which was just drawn up. THEN you WILL see some land bought! Flood the legislature with letters and contacts and spread the word to every single person you know!
doublerack
Active Member
A bowel of cereal? ooooh. I applaud you on that one. I had a bowl of cereal, but only read the last couple posts.