Buck Hollow Sporting Goods - click or touch to visit their website Midwest Habitat Company

HIGH POWER IN SO IOWA, SHOTGUN TURKEY WEEKEND

Not really sure what to think about using high powers to control the doe population.
If the deer numbers are really that high one would think it would be easier to tagout even with shotguns.
grin.gif


I, like many of the other members think the few problem areas will get missed.

I for one would not feel comfortable having a rifle season. Why? I live in southern Iowa. At some point I hope the safety of the public is taken into account. We may be able to reduce the deer population easier with rifles, but is it worth the risk of the unthinkable?
 
sstevens - you might want to check out item number 18 on their agenda!!!!! Click the link on the main post on this topic!!!!!
 
Lets hear some stories of your conversations with the commission members! I am curious as to what they are saying to everyone else!!!!!
 
Not much luck contacting. I have messages to return my calls.

Elizabeth Garst's # is for her Horse Stables. You will have to get her home phone # from them.

Anyone contact Joan Schnieder? If so would you mind shooting a PM with her #.
 
WJS-

It seems to me that two things need to happen here, you need more antlerless tags and more of those tags need to be filled. I hunt in southern Iowa and the antlerless tags for my county were sold out so I was unable to buy one but I would have if there were any more available. Increasing the number of tags will help in the counties that filled their quota. The other way to improve the harvest is to increase hunter success rates. If you sell 1,000 antlerless tags but only 500 get filled then you aren't really reaching your quota. In the past I've bought antlerless tags for bow season or shotgun season that go unfilled. After the season is over the tag is expired and I have to throw it away. Many times there aren't any tags left in January to hunt a county I want to hunt in, yet I have a tag from that county's quota that is has not been filled. Why not make any unfilled antlerless tags good for the january season? If you bought an antlerless tag for say Riggold county for bow, one of the shotguns, late muzzleloader any season, and it goes unfilled then allow that hunter to hunt the january season in that county wityh any of those weapons. Now maybe you up your success rate from 50% (500 out of 1,000) to 75% or more. Without issuing a single additional tag you can increase your harvest by 25%.
 
sstevens:

As written, the proposal doesn't allow shotgun hunting during that three-day, November season; only muzzleloaders and handguns.

I agree with you about the access problems. Maybe they need to start fining landowners who allow their deer density to get too high ... or sic the insurance companies on them!
grin.gif
 
Willie,

Thanks for showing up on this forum and providing some facts. Managing the deer herd in Iowa is a tough job and we appreciate your efforts.

I’ll be brief:
1) I dislike the Thanksgiving weekend doe season because:
A) I feel it will be ineffective due to the fact that most gun hunters will not want to hunt antlerless deer so close to the shotgun opener and risk spooking bucks off their hunting property.
B) Hunters need a statewide system to deal with / utilize the meat
C) Additionally, I think overlapping a firearms doe only season with prime time archery season is likely to spawn many unnecessary “shared use” issues. Let’s give bow hunters their space!

A better solution might be to allow gun hunters to obtain licenses in BOTH the early muzzleloader season and the shotgun seasons. I have heard from many shotgun hunters who would be very willing to harvest “does only” in the early muzzleloader season, or vice versa.

Last season I hunted deer every day from Oct 1 through the last day of the special late anterless season. I harvested 8 does / 0 bucks. I shot deer with a bow, shotgun, pistol and muzzleloader. Iowa hunters can solve the deer herd problem that exists without bringing in more out of state hunters but you need to slightly modify the options that are available to us so that we can get the job done.

Respectfully,
Tom Fassbinder
Whitetail Fanatic Magazine
 
Let us fill a bonus doe tag in any season we have a paid or landowner tag for instead of limiting it to a specific season. What will happen to the quality of our already limited public hunting areas that will shurly take the brunt of the increased hunting pressure. Will we have decimated populations in our public areas and high concentrations on the private areas that are managed as sanctuaries. The population didn't get to where it is in one year so why the spastic approach to reduction? I bought six bonus tags last year which was the first year I have participated in the program. The thing is catching on and gaining momentum, let it work and loosen the restrictions on bonus doe tags. Heck, the hunters on this site alone are so worked up by now we will probably kill an additional thousand next year.
 
Bummer.....seems the DNR messed this thing up. I wonder what is next on the agenda to lower the trophy potential of the state. If they think for a minute that all hunters are going to "pass" on bucks like the regs say, they are mistaken.....it just turned the dishonest a little more legal in the methods they chose at that time of the year. I wonder how long it will take Missouri to surpass Iowa in the numbers of B+C whitetails????
 
I cant beleive they approved it...THIS SUCKS....just shows they had there minds made up before it even got there....I left messages and do you think any of them took the time or courtsey to return my calls....NOT. Looks like to me the DNR needs a management change from the top down.
AS a land owner in southern Iowa (adams county) where this will actually effect us ...I promise you now....They just created another 1000+ acre doe sanctuary(between land I own and or Lease) ...Its a proven fact where theres does there will be bucks.
 
Here is where it goes from here. Next it will have a comment period and go before the legislative rules committee. So there can be some public input, BUT these legislators that are on the rules committee are the same ones telling the DNR to get control of the Deer Herd.

I will try and find out about the comment period. We'll figure out how to get our opinions accross to the legislative rules committee. Please try and stay positvite about this, and dont jump off the deep end and start name calling etc. The whole key to this process is to get a hold of your legislators year round, attend meetings, hell, go to the IBA fall festival, we have key figures from the DNR there for you to visit with at your disposal.
We still need to stay on top of this.
 
First, I really want to thank you for all of your comments. I do appreciate hearing what you have to say and urge you to continue to make your voices heard. I also believe that most everyone on this forum is an avid hunter and has passionate feelings about hunting. I know we won’t always agree but I do respect your thoughts and opinions, they are very valuable to me. I’ll try to elaborate on some of the excellent points you brought up in your responses.

Yes the Natural Resources Commission did approve the proposed deer rule. There were some concerns expressed by the Commissioners about the safety issues with high power rifles but there was little doubt that some action needed to be taken to reduce deer numbers. They also understand that if we can reduce deer numbers to our goal then these seasons will go away.

Now for some questions/issues you brought up.....

Probably the key question asked was by BOWMAKER who asked why I think we need to reduce deer numbers and why back to the 1997 level. It is probably the key question in the deer management program.

Deer management in Iowa may be characterized as balancing the public’s demand for hunting and viewing opportunities with the need to keep deer numbers compatible with agricultural interests, public safety and ecological limitations. The DNR’s objective is to maintain a stable deer population that balances the above demands. In many areas of the state deer numbers are currently too high. But how many is too many? For some people, one deer is too many for others there are never too many. Finding and maintaining a balance has always been and will always be the primary challenge of Iowa’s deer management program.

To gauge where we are on the “balancing beam” we hold public meetings and talk to various user groups such as the Iowa Bowhunters as well as the Farm Bureau. We also conduct formal surveys. We survey landowners and hunters to determine how they feel about deer numbers. In 1988 and 1996 the majority of both hunters and landowners felt that deer numbers were acceptable. However in 2002 over 50% of our landowners felt deer populations needed to be reduced. In 2003 we surveyed our hunters and found that 44% said that deer numbers were too high. It seems to me that the picture is pretty clear when nearly half of your hunters report that deer numbers are “too high”.

Our goal is to have a population capable of sustaining a harvest of 140,000 deer. This is about where we were in 1997. We hope that it is low enough that landowners will not have excessive damage and high enough that hunters can have a good hunt with quality deer. A good hunt to me means the opportunity to take one any-sex deer with a gun and one any-sex deer with a bow. I think there will still be opportunities to take extra antlerless deer in urban areas, parks and probably in some counties with low hunter numbers and high amounts of deer habitat.

Will this “ruin” Iowa as one of the top trophy deer states? I doubt it. If you look back, the mid 90’s is when Iowa started to “top the list” in the numbers of P&Y and BC entries. However how good of hunting we end up with depends upon Iowa’s hunters.

ONECAM hit the nail on the head: “the key (is) to educate hunters and land owners to shoot more does and open up hunting access in the problem areas”.

I believe we can have even better hunting than we did in the 90’s if we can get more hunters to pass up the small bucks and take a doe instead. If more hunter adopt this philosophy then I believe more landowners will be willing to “share” the opportunity to hunt with others. Maybe that is optimistic on my part but I think that hunters who adopt this philosophy will have an easier time finding places to hunt.

“Access” was mentioned several times and I wholeheartedly agree! Like I said in my first post, the DNR will be trying a pilot program this fall in 4 counties in southwest Iowa to recruit landowners to allow hunters to take antlerless deer. This program is an offshoot of last year’s “deer hunter registry” where over 800 hunters signed up saying they would hunt antlerless deer if they were asked. (Although not many connections were made the fact that that many hunters signed up showed there is interest.) Now we need to see if we can get more landowners involved. The pilot program will try to contact landowners and get them to commit to meeting with potential hunters.

Another option to improve “access” that the DNR purses is acquiring more public hunting land. We have also discussed ways to “lease” hunting access from private lanowners as some other states have done. Either of these options require money. Right now ALL of the funding for Iowa’s programs come from YOUR licenses. Cutting license costs simply means buying less public land and less opportunities for you. In my opinion DNR programs benefit ALL Iowans... and ALL Iowans should pay for these programs. Missouri dedicates 1/10 of 1 cent of the sales tax to natural resources... why can’t Iowa?!?

The final question I will try to answer (in this post as it is getting too long) is how do we know how many deer there are and how many were killed? The most honest answer I can give is that we don’t know... at least not exactly. What I try to do is to use the best scientific and statistical techniques to “estimate” how many deer there are and how many are killed. We do aerial surveys in the winter and spotlight surveys in the spring to “gauge” how deer numbers have changed after the season. We also collect data on car deer accidents (and adjust these numbers for the number of miles traveled on Iowa’s highways). We estimate deer harvest by using post season harvest surveys mailed to a random sample of hunters from each season. (I would prefer check stations but have not been successful in getting them implemented. The latest deer bill does require us to develop a “deer reporting” system but it can not be a “ physical check station”. We can only require hunters to report using a phone, post card, the ELSI system or the internet. So things will be changing.)

I use computer models to “simulate” deer numbers based upon the harvest and survey data and biological data from survival and productivity we acquire from research projects. These models work fairly well at a large scale (a wildlife management unit of 4 – 6 counties). County antlerless quotas are then set based upon the model along with feedback from local conservation officers, biologists and the public.

Well again this post is very long. Thank you for taking the time to read through it. As I stated last post I do not want to “interfere” with your discussions. I will answer your questions and provide info if you request and it is useful for the group. Thanks for your support of the deer resource in Iowa!

wjs
 
[ QUOTE ]
. In my opinion DNR programs benefit ALL Iowans... and ALL Iowans should pay for these programs. Missouri dedicates 1/10 of 1 cent of the sales tax to natural resources... why can’t Iowa?!?



[/ QUOTE ]

willie, i have been pushing that since i joined this site. how can we go about trying to get a similar system implemented? missouri's DNR is totally self sufficient, and the legislature cannot divert funds away from the DNR.
 
Mr. Suchy,

Thanks for your reply, and thanks for all your hard work throughout the years.
Your position is truely a tough one to be in. Remember when your problem was trying to increase the size of Iowa's deer herd?
grin.gif


Did a heck of a job...too good!
waytogo.gif



With all due respect, I wish someone would just come out and tell us the real reason for the big population reduction plan and all these new regulations.

Maybe it's the fact that the insurance industry has more money and more power than the DNR and the IBA and well, plain and simple...they won!
frown.gif
And, with less deer they have more money and more power and they can keep it that way.
mad.gif
 
I agree with everyone that this whole thing sucks. Also I too called our NRC members and left messages stating why I was calling and my concerns about the new seasons and like many others I never received a call back.

I do have a question though. If this new season(s) is implemented will it be a forever thing? Or lets say if it works and it does get the herd back in check will it be pulled and we go back to the regular seasons, both bow & gun?
 
Word is, these seasons will be eliminated once the herd is reduced.

I just worry that until some of these people who don't allow access change their ways, we will be in for a long ride.
 
Willie,

Thanks for all you do and for sharing information with us here. All-in-all, the new regulations shouldn't present a hardship on anyone and hopefully will have the desired effect. Did the HUSH program expansion get approval as well? I think that's almost as important as the access issue. Ethical hunters won't take more deer unless they have an outlet for the meat.
Good luck and keep us posted on this fall's harvest information.
 
Seems weird that they will implement a plan to change the numbers when they admittedly don't know what the numbers are.

As for 44% of the hunters saying there are to many deer. I would think that was to get more tags, not because they felt there were to many deer. I can hear that 44% saying "Oh yeah, we saw way too many deer. We had a hard time deciding what one to shoot when they were running all over us. Need to get 'em thinned down some so we don't shoot as much next year." Where do they send out these questionares, to all the people around Iowa City and areas that are known for excess deer? In 17 years I think I have gotten one survey. I think we are beginning to swirl around in the bowl boys and girls.

As if there weren't enough bucks getting shot in Jan., now folks will be popping them at 300 yards, only to realize what they have done when they walk up on it. It all boils down to the insurance companies. I appreciate your honesty and you taking the time to get on this site Mr. Suchy. But the bottom line is the insurance agencies and politicians are telling folks to jump. I just hope the dnr doesn't say "how high?"
 
Actually if you are using a Highpower you should be using a scope. With a good scope even at 300yards you should be able to determine if it is a buck or a doe.
Last year when I hunted the late bonus most all the bucks still had their horns on. If a buck drops his horns that early don't you think there could be something wrong with him or his enviroment to make him drop early. I realize that alot of other thing determine when and why the drop their antlers but I saw Antlered deer in to March this year and last. I take great pride in making sure that I shoot a doe. If you make sure and shoot a smaller deer in the group you can be sure to not shoot a shooter buck. Just my opinion.
 
Top Bottom