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Nonresident Landowners, check out this website.

Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

First of all, nothing personal.....

not going to argue this, the point of the matter is i have not seen these studies you suggest as "The authority" so i can be as skeptical as i like! especially on a deer hunting forum where "internet geniuses" exist like mad....... i may be one.... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

furthermore, you dont threaten me, so i dont really care if you choose to "stand-down" or not..... call me out if you must, but i am under no obligation to share any information regarding what my source is! that, in itself is my point!

i could have made up my stats and claimed they were from a reliable source, as i posted, and some could choose to believe them or be skeptical as i am of your stats. the bottom line is, this is a discussion forum not ISU, and i dont feel that figure is accurate based on my source (whom may or may not exist), which i will not disclose for the simple fact that any information i choose to share could be challenged and considered speculation, which essentially leads to arguements and gets us no where. you feel you are right, i feel i am right..... i can respect that and from this point on will drop it.

money, greed and selfishness are the isseus i have a problem with regarding the website mentioned at the begining of this post.... not providing proof of numbers that may or may not exist.

Respectfully - $
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: midwestfoodplots</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At Plot Day this last weekend our Chapter President addressed this as best as we can. The Mid Iowa Chapter has taken a stance that we support the laws as they stand. Our Regional QDMA Director was on-site and concurred with us why things should remain as is. As a member of the board for this chapter we submitted a formal request to QDMA Corporate looking for their input on the matter. I will keep you guys posted if I hear something.

Keep in mind our mission remains the same, as the only active chapter in Iowa, to continue to educate the best we can and to follow QDMA practices here in Iowa and do what's best for the people in Iowa. Although we support the local regulations, we understand that change is always inevitable and we want to make sure we have a voice to be part of the solutions. The last thing we want is to be kept out of the future solutions because we are unwilling to be open minded. </div></div>

Terry, I respect you and I know the tight spot you and the QDMA are in on this issue. Since you replied I guess that makes you the lightning rod.

Your first paragraph was fine, however, you use the terms “Our” and “We” in the last paragraph several times. Can I assume “Our” and “We” is a cumulative effort on behalf of the Association and those who want change? I am led to believe this by the phrases “change is inevitable” and “be part of the solution”.

Think for a second about the NRA and what would happen to gun laws in America if they had the attitude that “change is inevitable” or “be part of the solution”? The NRA, like the resident hunters of Iowa, cannot afford to give an inch on their core issues. To do so would allow the crack in the dyke that will eventually become a flood.

We have to hold the line, me must hold the line and we shall hold the line to keep the laws in Iowa favorable for Iowans and the future of Iowa hunting.

I am not trying to make QDMA the villain here. I think as a whole the Association has more positive attributes than negative. I just don’t want the mission of QDMA to be suborned by groups or individuals for subjugation of our laws and their personal economic gain.

I think back to what Chris and the gentleman representing QDMA said at the Plot Day. I was stuck that they are trying to serve two masters and we all know that he who ties to serve two masters serves neither. They too were trying to walk a delicate line between alienation of the grass roots members and the companies and individuals that would stand to gain from change. I don't envy the spot FOI has put them in.

Unfortunately money talks and who ever contributes more to QDMA will gain QDMA’s ear.

Damn, I hate to sound negative about an Association that has done good things and has the potential to do more. It just boils down to whom or what you see as the greater good. Bottom line, if I still had to pay yearly dues would I renew? YES, because with out being a member I have no voice in the Association.

The choice of membership is up to you. Let your conscious be your guide.

Crap. QDMA is takin a hit here it probably doesn’t deserve because it was mentioned on another web site. It isn’t fair, but it is what it is.

And thanks for asking for a clarification from QDMA Corporate. Please keep us posted.

The ‘Bonker
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

THA4,

My post was not meant to be personal and I don't believe it is. However, when quoting figures I think it is commonplace, discussion forum or not, to be able and prepared to support a position if need be.
Iowa State University is an authority regarding agricultural economics, especially in Iowa, and is on top of these types of facts.
Lastly, the term "stand down" simply means I would concede my point if presented with opposing valid information, and I in no way see how you perceived the term as a threat toward you, or vice versa.
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: midwestfoodplots</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The QDMA Pres. of our Mid Iowa Chapter did reach out to FOI today to share our discontent with them and how they have unprofessionally put QDMA into their marketing. Realistically QDMA should have no part of this battle, but FOI pulled us in. They should have never used QDMA on their website and secondly, whatever their agenda is should have involved the grassroots of this state instead of alienating everyone.

We are a QDMA Chapter of less then a year old, no lobbiest, many of us are in this to help educate and here we are in the middle of this mess. I'll repeat what I said before, our stance is to support the current regulations as they stand. We would hope the DNR would ask our input on impacts, but the only influence we have right now is to get QDMA to hold FOI accountable, which we are trying to do. IBA is much stronger then us and has much more clout then us and we would be more then happy to support them in any efforts they put forth to squash this.

I guess with that being said, we are open to suggestions if there is something we can do to help. </div></div>
Thanks Terry.

Like I said before, you guys are in an untenable position. I'm sure nobody holds you guys personally responsible and thanks for helping us to try and make sense of it. It means a lot to me when volunteers take their own personal time to try and lead. It is too bad when folks that volunteer their time get caught in the middle and have to deal with some of the negative aspects of volunteering, but with out a perceptible change in their attitude. In other words, you guys could have just as easily said “Screw it, I’m outta here” but you are hangin in there. Thank you.

So I guess you are helping by doin what you are doin.

Thanks again.

The ‘Bonker
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

fair enough...... my appologies.

commonplace or not, i see no need to verify my source as legitimate or not as numbers get loosely thrown around in discussion like this and my point was just that.....


believe it if you wish, if not, thats your call.

I know where i stand and why i believe what i believe.

Respectfully~$
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

WOW!!!!!!! I've been off the website for a few months and have to say..........this post makes me embarrassed to be an Iowan Landowner!

My father was one of the first who understood the benefits of QDMA. He passed away 8 years ago. He believed in these things:

1. He stressed to my brothers and I of the benefits of killing the does and being "personally" responsible for managing the deer herd balance on the property that we own.

2. He also stressed to us that we "Love Your Neighbor As Yourself". We do anything in our power to help out our neighbors in any way that we can. And one of them is a non-resident.

I am an Iowa Landowner and two of by brothers are Non-Resident Landowners.

If I had to guess I would say 90% of the Iowa resident responses on this post are NON landowners. The reason I say this is when you have to personally "buy" land like my brothers and I did with my mother, with your own "skin" in the game, you have a different outlook. You should be able to somewhat control your land.

Watching what my brothers have to go thru (drawing a buck tag every 3 years and only killing 1 doe each per year) is ridiculus.

My biggest fear with the Non-Resident Landowner laws the way they are today is what happens to our kids. My two sons help me and my brothers do our part in managing the land......BUT what happens if their careers take them outside of Iowa and they have to make that choice to support their families?

It shouldn't matter what state you live in IF you own the ground an have PAID for if! You should be given the RIGHT to be responsible to properly manage it YOURSELF!

Iowans...........this post is not setting a good example of the "humbleness" and "down to earth" example of what we are all about!

Sorry for the Emotion!
Gregg
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

Very good post Gregg. The one point you made that I believe is true is that most negative responses are from non-landowners.
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

As a "Iowa Landowner" it does make me proud of the way others are sticking up for the resident landowners.
If your son's move out of state for work then I feel they should find places to hunt and help manage that state since you stated they truely understand QDM. Maybe if other states would adapt to the way we manage our herds here we wouldn't be waisting our time trying to defend our laws from greedy out of state outfitters and landowners. I have friends who have moved out of state and have started hunting there. They come back when they get drawn and don't have a problem with the laws as they are because they understand that in order for Iowa to continue the quality we have there has to be some sacrifices made.
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

I guess I don't see the logic in buying land in a state that you don't live in, which I guess is a whole different topic in itself. If I lived in Pennsylvania for instance I would probably buy my own ground there and hunt it and try to manage it correctly.

The non-residents on this site are treating this as if you can't hunt our state, you can! You just have to draw a tag! If you own land here, chances are you know people and in years you aren't fortunate enough to draw a tag, have them manage it for you. Even us residents went through a time back in the dark ages where we had to apply for tags! No big deal!
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

I guess I’ll chime in as well.

First off us as residents of Iowa now know for sure what we are up against.
They the FOI are organized and probably getting stronger by the day. We are wasting our time and effort typing responses to some folks on here that will never get it! We need to get better organized for this battle, we need to use existing forces (IBA) to battle these folks who are trying to steal what we have so rightfully built over the last 40-50 years of management by means of the DNR and us the resident hunters.

What is happening though is these corporate hunting operations that are slowly moving into Iowa want to take control. They can’t do it alone so they are enlisting the help of sympathetic Iowans and non resident land owners with promises that we will get you a buck tag every year or make you rich by selling your land for even more money. What you will see happen is they will divide these large chunks of ground down into 40 or 80 acre parcels and then lobby for every NR landowner who owns that amount to get a tag. So it won’t be 1 tag it will 10 or 20 buck tags that they will in turn sell for a huge profit. Then once the well is dry so to speak they will pack up and head off onto the next whitetail Mecca to conquer. We will be left with outrageous land prices and an out of control deer herd. Sure not all NR’s are part of this group, but they are drawing the battle lines so you will see who really cares about Iowa’s deer herd and who cares about the all mighty dollar.

They try and pin it on us that we are somehow trying to deny them access to the state. This is a bald-faced lie! In reality we aren’t denying them access we are trying to preserve the very thing they are all wanting to experience. A quality hunt with adequate access. Not $5000 hunts and $25,000 a year hunt clubs. The little guy who now waits 2-3 years to hunt won’t ever hunt here again unless he buys a chunk of ground or pays them to hunt!

Make no mistake they are going to use every means possible to achieve this. This isn’t about Mickey getting a tag every year because if it was he could already have that. He is enough of a celebrity that the Governor would give him one of our fine Governor tags we so easily hand out. He wants the same kind of operation they have down South. IT’S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY FOLKS, IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE.

If you think land is expensive now, wait till this passes. Then try and buy your own little piece of heaven. That 4% or 19% will surely increase dramatically.

It’s going to take more than joining the IBA to stop this. Joining the IBA is a start, but we as hunters need to get educated on these issues and educate our fellow hunters and fisherman. I’m sure everyone that visits this website knows plenty of other hunters and fisherman as well as registered voters. Well the ball is our hands. If we sit idly by and let this happen it’s on our watch and we will be to blame why future generations don’t enjoy what we are currently enjoying. We do outnumber them and we also vote so everyone needs to take the time to contact your legislature and let them know how you feel. Also don’t pass up the opportunity to go to the statehouse when they have a rally. The last one I went too I was disappointed on the turnout!

Well it’s up to us, I challenge you to do more than type a few words on the internet! I know I'm going to get even more involved now!

Chris
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

That was a great post Chris! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Back40</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very good post Gregg. The one point you made that I believe is true is that most negative responses are from non-landowners. </div></div>

I think if you look into it Back40 you will find that many of the "negative" responses are from people like myself ... I own a very nice property that is managed for whitetails, I should never be lacking of a great place to hunt, but my concern is what this group's actions could lead to and the negative impact their efforts will have long term on the overall quality of our states deer herd.
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

Farmland,

I agree, I own land in Iowa as well and intend on hunting the property for years to come. I gotta say I don't know what the answer is??? My issue is this...one point of contention is that the increasing number of NR landowners is causing population bubbles in certain areas, but how do we address this problem?? Shooting one doe every year doesn't have an impact and any proposed increases for NR's is shouted down with assumptions that NR's are then hunting bucks with doe tags, any increase is the beginning of bad trend and will open additional license options for NR's, etc.. NR land owners are being blamed for locking up land and causing an adverse affect on the deer pop., well let us do our part, intiate some change to keep deer numbers in check on NR owned properties; simply complaining about it doesn't get it done.
Or, is this simply a NR blame game being used to keep license quotas status quo so certain folks maintain their hunting spots with little regard of the big picture. I respectfully submit that not permitting NR's to deal with deer numbers on their properties is adverse to the overall condition of the deer herd.
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

hoofline.gif


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That was a great post Chris! </div></div>

I must agree with Ghost, very well said Chris! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif


<span style="color: #CC0000">Please join and support the Iowa Bowhunters Association, united we can make a difference.</span>
<span style="color: #CC0000">For more information about becoming an IBA member&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</span>Details<span style="color: #CC0000">&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;</span>
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hoofline.gif
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

Back40,

I'm not blaming NR's for any of our problems. I also don't expect you to cure our so called deer population problem. I'll be the first to admit that NR's should be able to buy doe tags at the same price we do, but I don't see FOI or any other so called concerned NR hunters lobbying for this. I just read the same old BS on this and several other websites. You NR's really want to help then join with us to change that aspect of the regs.

That being said your quote was: (with assumptions that NR's are then hunting bucks with doe tags) No assumptions about it. We read about it every hunting season and there are hundreds we don't hear about. Case in hand: There are two NR's who frequent this website who were convited of this very offense, yet no one on IW knows about it or they aren't talking about it. I'm not about to out them, but they know who they are and I'm sure they won't be happy when they read this. One was fined $5000 and the other was fined $10,000 yet neither of them lost their hunting privliages. In my opinion they should have lost their privliages for 10 years! So what did it teach them? I can assure you though that their resident neighbors know and that will forever affect the relationship between them. One moment of greed or preceived entitlement cost them a lifetime of achievments and respect. Was a big buck really worth that? I guess the DNR removed the loophole that afforded them that temptation.
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Back40</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Farmland,

I agree, I own land in Iowa as well and intend on hunting the property for years to come. I gotta say I don't know what the answer is??? My issue is this...one point of contention is that the increasing number of NR landowners is causing population bubbles in certain areas, but how do we address this problem?? Shooting one doe every year doesn't have an impact and any proposed increases for NR's is shouted down with assumptions that NR's are then hunting bucks with doe tags, any increase is the beginning of bad trend and will open additional license options for NR's, etc.. NR land owners are being blamed for locking up land and causing an adverse affect on the deer pop., well let us do our part, intiate some change to keep deer numbers in check on NR owned properties; simply complaining about it doesn't get it done.
Or, is this simply a NR blame game being used to keep license quotas status quo so certain folks maintain their hunting spots with little regard of the big picture. I respectfully submit that not permitting NR's to deal with deer numbers on their properties is adverse to the overall condition of the deer herd. </div></div>

I agree with everything you said in the above quote ... I feel Iowa does need to enable non-resident landowners more opportunities, at a reasonable price, to control the deer populations on their own property. In some areas it is resident recreational landowners that do not shoot does or resident farmers that just don't want people on the land that have caused our pockets of high deer numbers. This is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed.

Mickey's website has little to do with our deer population or our herd quality, he is simply packaging it that way because he knows that story is an easier sell. His real agenda is longer gun seasons and more non-resident tags for his clients and he doesn't really care who he steps on to get that. He wants to develop the business he has invested in but has found that our tag laws and short gun seasons make it difficult for big outfitters offering wild deer to consistantly sell hunts. Mickey's lack of professional ethics claiming that Iowa's deer herd has exceeded the carrying capacity of our habitat and his sobby personal storyline reminds me of the tactics that PETA and other animal rights groups use.

My concern is maintaining the quality of Iowa's deer herd ... I believe the quality of our herd will decline with longer gun seasons and more non-resident any-sex tags.
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

I don't think anyone needs to be too concerned about the impact of the "Friends" website. The only non resident speaking out in the testimonial is Mickey himself which brings up the first ethics issue of attempting to convey the ranks of the membership having their say. In addition, a google search of the organization brings up a whopping zero hits. That should be a clue right there. As in the above post, I found myself laughing at the carrying capacity bit. Like Mickey, I too graduated from ISU in the Fisheries and Wildlife Biology program and other than making Dr. Pease proud by introducing folks to the concept, it has little value when applied to a deer herd sitting in the bread basket of the United States under adequate hunting pressure and a watchful eye from both the DNR and individuals alike. Myself and my hunting partners pulled 23 does off our hunting grounds this year, all with bows, and there are countless others making similar efforts. The simple fact is that this is a basement run outfit with big, self serving ideas and no power to accomplish anything.
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iowabowtech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think anyone needs to be too concerned about the impact of the "Friends" website. The only non resident speaking out in the testimonial is Mickey himself which brings up the first ethics issue of attempting to convey the ranks of the membership having their say. In addition, a google search of the organization brings up a whopping zero hits. That should be a clue right there. As in the above post, I found myself laughing at the carrying capacity bit. Like Mickey, I too graduated from ISU in the Fisheries and Wildlife Biology program and other than making Dr. Pease proud by introducing folks to the concept, it has little value when applied to a deer herd sitting in the bread basket of the United States under adequate hunting pressure and a watchful eye from both the DNR and individuals alike. Myself and my hunting partners pulled 23 does off our hunting grounds this year, all with bows, and there are countless others making similar efforts. The simple fact is that this is a basement run outfit with big, self serving ideas and no power to accomplish anything. </div></div>

You and Chris Ellis have made excellent post. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

very well put guys, lots of great posts on this topic, but the one that i keep feeling the need to re-itterate is getting involved, take the day off the next time there is a gathering at the state house (or whereever it is /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif ) and make an appearance! our numbers greatly outweigh those of this small group of NR's trying to change the regs.......

all of us agree, NRLO's are not at the core of our over populated herd. however, to maintain what is already great, we as residents, landowners and non-landowners need to band together in a group and appear in front of our legislatures and state our case! what we have is worth fighting to preserve, yet share what we have with NR's as they have every right to enjoy it within reason, hence the current regs. not to mention they are essential to our management program! i wont take that away from NR's

over accessability will decrease the quality we all enjoy. even if we own large parcials of land, we could see an impact if the flood gates are opened.

talk on this website will only fuel the fire to stand up when it counts, so i encourage all those who feel strongly about this topic to take the time and send emails and make phone calls, THEN show up when things are in session! i will be there next time!

Discussion is good and definately needed, but will you stand up and appear in front of the decision makers when the time comes?

we have the strength in numbers and passion! lets keep after it!



Great posts IBT and Chris! Right on!
 
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website

Don't forget guys, there are many more NR hunters that are on the same page with us. Most are happy to hunt this state when they draw a tag because of the current regulations the IDNR has in place.

Also, don't forget that all the money in the world can not buy these people the right to vote in the state of Iowa for the representatives that are representing Iowans.

This is not about anti-hunting, this is not about anti-non-resident, this is not about comparing Iowa resident deer hunters to PETA...this is about maintaining what we currently have in Iowa, damn good deer hunting.

I don't care how much damn money you have, how much land you own or how much you don't, I just feel it in my gut that I want future generations of hunters to be able to experience what I have on a frosty November morning in Iowa.

Like my friend Chris Ellis said, type written words on the internet are meaningless...do something and contact your representatives.
 
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