midwestfoodplots
New Member
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website
At Plot Day this last weekend our Chapter President addressed this as best as we can. The Mid Iowa Chapter has taken a stance that we support the laws as they stand. Our Regional QDMA Director was on-site and concurred with us why things should remain as is. As a member of the board for this chapter we submitted a formal request to QDMA Corporate looking for their input on the matter. I will keep you guys posted if I hear something.
Keep in mind our mission remains the same, as the only active chapter in Iowa, to continue to educate the best we can and to follow QDMA practices here in Iowa and do what's best for the people in Iowa. Although we support the local regulations, we understand that change is always inevitable and we want to make sure we have a voice to be part of the solutions. The last thing we want is to be kept out of the future solutions because we are unwilling to be open minded.
At Plot Day this last weekend our Chapter President addressed this as best as we can. The Mid Iowa Chapter has taken a stance that we support the laws as they stand. Our Regional QDMA Director was on-site and concurred with us why things should remain as is. As a member of the board for this chapter we submitted a formal request to QDMA Corporate looking for their input on the matter. I will keep you guys posted if I hear something.
Keep in mind our mission remains the same, as the only active chapter in Iowa, to continue to educate the best we can and to follow QDMA practices here in Iowa and do what's best for the people in Iowa. Although we support the local regulations, we understand that change is always inevitable and we want to make sure we have a voice to be part of the solutions. The last thing we want is to be kept out of the future solutions because we are unwilling to be open minded.
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website
I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents (we need some more rat bast*rd NR's to chime in right? ha). First of all, the reason I apply for a tag in Iowa every year is no secret......big bucks. Coming from a state that does almost everything wrong-management wise...realizing what Iowa does right (and has going for it) is crystal clear.
1) Gun season after the rut
2) Great whitetail habitat (crp, unlimited crops, brushy draws.....)
3) Limiting # of non-resident tags
4) Low overall hunter #'s (resident hunters)
Obviously, via #3, I understand why Iowans feel so strongly. In my mind, it's the right thing to do in order to protect your hunting. However, it's not the only thing that has made you the top state for big bucks. You guys have no idea- unless you've lived in PA or MI- how good you have it. Comparitively speaking, you have next to no hunting pressure. If a buck slips by you, more than likely he'll live to see another day or year. Where I'm from, he won't. period. I know it is up to us to change that mentality, I'm just making a point. There is so much competition here that I am truly surprised when I see or hear of a monster killed. Limited hunting pressure, good eats and a gun season after the rut save your big bucks.
A point I've seen made here many times is how NR's are pretty much to blame for the doe population explosion. Every time I'm down your way, I'll see a pile of deer in a field feeding. I'll ask around and find out 'oh.......so and so (a resident) owns that section and the adjacent section'. I don't think these does are hanging out on NR's land all the time. There has to be plenty of opportunity for residents to shoot them. Should the DNR issue more resident doe tags? probably. but that isn't the NR's fault. Also, charging a NR $100 for a doe tag is crazy, but not allowing a NR to buy additional doe tags for next to nothing is even crazier. I would gladly shoot 3-4 does while I'm there.
Another thing I find interesting (and to clarify, I DO NOT own land in Iowa) is how quick most of you are to sign up NR's to have residents hunt their property. I truly understand what you are trying to accomplish, I am just surprised that it almost sounds like it's your RIGHT to hunt their land. Every time i visit Iowa, I am amazed at how kind the people are. They are down to earth and generous. My kind of people for sure. But comments like 'we Iowans allow you to hunt our state' and 'if you NR's would kill your share of does' comes off a little high and mighty.
ok, one more thing. Closing the loophole for party hunting for NR's is probably a good idea. However, from what I've seen it gets abused by Iowa residents too. You know what I'm talking about. Grandma (who is 97 years old) always seems to tag out every year. Man, she's a good shot. I know it is tradition to party hunt but if your intentions are truly to build a better herd and grow bigger bucks- shouldn't you close the party hunt for yourselves too?
I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents (we need some more rat bast*rd NR's to chime in right? ha). First of all, the reason I apply for a tag in Iowa every year is no secret......big bucks. Coming from a state that does almost everything wrong-management wise...realizing what Iowa does right (and has going for it) is crystal clear.
1) Gun season after the rut
2) Great whitetail habitat (crp, unlimited crops, brushy draws.....)
3) Limiting # of non-resident tags
4) Low overall hunter #'s (resident hunters)
Obviously, via #3, I understand why Iowans feel so strongly. In my mind, it's the right thing to do in order to protect your hunting. However, it's not the only thing that has made you the top state for big bucks. You guys have no idea- unless you've lived in PA or MI- how good you have it. Comparitively speaking, you have next to no hunting pressure. If a buck slips by you, more than likely he'll live to see another day or year. Where I'm from, he won't. period. I know it is up to us to change that mentality, I'm just making a point. There is so much competition here that I am truly surprised when I see or hear of a monster killed. Limited hunting pressure, good eats and a gun season after the rut save your big bucks.
A point I've seen made here many times is how NR's are pretty much to blame for the doe population explosion. Every time I'm down your way, I'll see a pile of deer in a field feeding. I'll ask around and find out 'oh.......so and so (a resident) owns that section and the adjacent section'. I don't think these does are hanging out on NR's land all the time. There has to be plenty of opportunity for residents to shoot them. Should the DNR issue more resident doe tags? probably. but that isn't the NR's fault. Also, charging a NR $100 for a doe tag is crazy, but not allowing a NR to buy additional doe tags for next to nothing is even crazier. I would gladly shoot 3-4 does while I'm there.
Another thing I find interesting (and to clarify, I DO NOT own land in Iowa) is how quick most of you are to sign up NR's to have residents hunt their property. I truly understand what you are trying to accomplish, I am just surprised that it almost sounds like it's your RIGHT to hunt their land. Every time i visit Iowa, I am amazed at how kind the people are. They are down to earth and generous. My kind of people for sure. But comments like 'we Iowans allow you to hunt our state' and 'if you NR's would kill your share of does' comes off a little high and mighty.
ok, one more thing. Closing the loophole for party hunting for NR's is probably a good idea. However, from what I've seen it gets abused by Iowa residents too. You know what I'm talking about. Grandma (who is 97 years old) always seems to tag out every year. Man, she's a good shot. I know it is tradition to party hunt but if your intentions are truly to build a better herd and grow bigger bucks- shouldn't you close the party hunt for yourselves too?
loneranger
Well-Known Member
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website
What you said about Michigan, is correct BC. I was born and lived 50 yrs in MI. I miss the scenery and the summers, but not the deer hunting. That was part of the reason, I chose to move hear to Iowa. The other part was my wife, and her family.
What you said about Michigan, is correct BC. I was born and lived 50 yrs in MI. I miss the scenery and the summers, but not the deer hunting. That was part of the reason, I chose to move hear to Iowa. The other part was my wife, and her family.
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website
OK, I've stayed out of this one but Pharmer's reply got me thinking. I'm a relative newbie to deer hunting as my family never deer hunted so I've only been chasing them for about 15 years. I have been hunting other things my whole life and my immediate family has never owned any hunting land. I grew up hunting on my Grandpa's & then my Uncle's land and have moved onto other private ground & public hunting as well. Pharmer's comment got me thinking & yeah, we do kind of expect to hunt on other's ground for free because that's the way it's always been. But we grew up in different times and when it was just us you always knew someone that would let you hunt just because they knew your Dad or your family had helped their family at one point. Most of my hunting spots are still based on this philosophy & I guess when that changes and people that are my friends tell me "Sorry you have to start to pay now because so & so offered me some $ and you have to match it" then I'll find another place to hunt. I'm not sure what my point is really except, if we lose all the resident hunters because of $ then what will we have? Our shotgun group can swell to over 20 hunters the first weekend when you count all the kids we bring along to teach them to hunt. None of them would pay to lease ground. If most local hunters quit what will be left? I think we end up with a huge uncontrollable deer herd & a society that has changed and not for the better. Maybe I'm a fool but I still put a lot of stock in the old relationships where my friends can call me at any time for help when they really need it & I can take my family on a hunting, fishing or camping trip whenever I want. So yeah, maybe I am selfish and do expect to hunt, fish and camp and hike for free but is it really free when it's based on an old fashioned relationship of caring and trustworthiness? I can't imagine the time when the only ones who hunt are those who will pay with their wallets. Some of us have been paying for generations with many things besides cash. Hope this makes sense.
Maggs
OK, I've stayed out of this one but Pharmer's reply got me thinking. I'm a relative newbie to deer hunting as my family never deer hunted so I've only been chasing them for about 15 years. I have been hunting other things my whole life and my immediate family has never owned any hunting land. I grew up hunting on my Grandpa's & then my Uncle's land and have moved onto other private ground & public hunting as well. Pharmer's comment got me thinking & yeah, we do kind of expect to hunt on other's ground for free because that's the way it's always been. But we grew up in different times and when it was just us you always knew someone that would let you hunt just because they knew your Dad or your family had helped their family at one point. Most of my hunting spots are still based on this philosophy & I guess when that changes and people that are my friends tell me "Sorry you have to start to pay now because so & so offered me some $ and you have to match it" then I'll find another place to hunt. I'm not sure what my point is really except, if we lose all the resident hunters because of $ then what will we have? Our shotgun group can swell to over 20 hunters the first weekend when you count all the kids we bring along to teach them to hunt. None of them would pay to lease ground. If most local hunters quit what will be left? I think we end up with a huge uncontrollable deer herd & a society that has changed and not for the better. Maybe I'm a fool but I still put a lot of stock in the old relationships where my friends can call me at any time for help when they really need it & I can take my family on a hunting, fishing or camping trip whenever I want. So yeah, maybe I am selfish and do expect to hunt, fish and camp and hike for free but is it really free when it's based on an old fashioned relationship of caring and trustworthiness? I can't imagine the time when the only ones who hunt are those who will pay with their wallets. Some of us have been paying for generations with many things besides cash. Hope this makes sense.
Maggs
THA4
A Few Steps Ahead Of You
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OrionWhitetails</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Exactly 19% (i.e., "roughly 1/5") of agricultural land in Iowa is owned by non-residents - this figure is from an Iowa State University publication and not made up by me. </div></div>
I also did some research on this and the legitimate source i have tapped into says that less than 4% of Iowa's hunting land is NR owned....
better check your sources, Hotshot, obvioulsy the stats you have "access to" skewed to better support your purpose....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> stink of pure greed....</div></div>
true.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OrionWhitetails</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Exactly 19% (i.e., "roughly 1/5") of agricultural land in Iowa is owned by non-residents - this figure is from an Iowa State University publication and not made up by me. </div></div>
I also did some research on this and the legitimate source i have tapped into says that less than 4% of Iowa's hunting land is NR owned....
better check your sources, Hotshot, obvioulsy the stats you have "access to" skewed to better support your purpose....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> stink of pure greed....</div></div>
true.....
deeraddict
PMA Member
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website
Great post Maggs. I come from the same thinking.
Great post Maggs. I come from the same thinking.
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website
THA4,
I don't care either way but be accurate. According to a 2004 Iowa State study and publication, "Reflections of Iowa Farmland" by Mike Duffy, approximately 94% of Iowa land was owned by residents in 1982, and decreased to 82% by 2002; leaving 18% owned by non-residents. Surely, NR ownership has not declined from 2002 to 2008. Unfortunately, I think the NR number is fairly close.
THA4,
I don't care either way but be accurate. According to a 2004 Iowa State study and publication, "Reflections of Iowa Farmland" by Mike Duffy, approximately 94% of Iowa land was owned by residents in 1982, and decreased to 82% by 2002; leaving 18% owned by non-residents. Surely, NR ownership has not declined from 2002 to 2008. Unfortunately, I think the NR number is fairly close.
Ghost
Life Member
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website
I think you both have made good points.
I do view ISU and their land survey information to be accurate, I read them each year with regard to trends and values.
While NR may own 20 percent of Iowa, obviously this is not all hunting land or purchased solely for hunting. NR land ownership happens for far too many reasons and purposes to list here.
So I would agree with both of you to a certain extent.
It's the "context" in which the numbers are being used that I have a problem with.
Thanks for keeping this a good discussion.
I think you both have made good points.
I do view ISU and their land survey information to be accurate, I read them each year with regard to trends and values.
While NR may own 20 percent of Iowa, obviously this is not all hunting land or purchased solely for hunting. NR land ownership happens for far too many reasons and purposes to list here.
So I would agree with both of you to a certain extent.
It's the "context" in which the numbers are being used that I have a problem with.
Thanks for keeping this a good discussion.
KSQ2
PMA Member
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website
I've not weighed in on this, but as a person coming from a state that is doing it's best to destroy resident hunting, my advice is hang on to what you've got Iowa residents! My brother-in-law met a fella from Florida last year at a gas station in Caney, KS. Mike noticed his hunting gear and his Florida plates and asked how long he was up hunting for. Guessing he was using an outfitter, Mike asked who, the fella replied that he'd purchased a "small farm" in Chatauqua county to hunt a couple of years ago. (His small farm was 240 acres!) This is just one of many stories. In Kansas ANY landowner is able to purchase an either sex tag each year. Many NR are no longer leasing, they're just buying the land! Of course, much of it gets poached when they're not around, but that's another story. If you don't want the same, fight and write, Iowa hunters!
I've not weighed in on this, but as a person coming from a state that is doing it's best to destroy resident hunting, my advice is hang on to what you've got Iowa residents! My brother-in-law met a fella from Florida last year at a gas station in Caney, KS. Mike noticed his hunting gear and his Florida plates and asked how long he was up hunting for. Guessing he was using an outfitter, Mike asked who, the fella replied that he'd purchased a "small farm" in Chatauqua county to hunt a couple of years ago. (His small farm was 240 acres!) This is just one of many stories. In Kansas ANY landowner is able to purchase an either sex tag each year. Many NR are no longer leasing, they're just buying the land! Of course, much of it gets poached when they're not around, but that's another story. If you don't want the same, fight and write, Iowa hunters!
midwestfoodplots
New Member
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website
The QDMA Pres. of our Mid Iowa Chapter did reach out to FOI today to share our discontent with them and how they have unprofessionally put QDMA into their marketing. Realistically QDMA should have no part of this battle, but FOI pulled us in. They should have never used QDMA on their website and secondly, whatever their agenda is should have involved the grassroots of this state instead of alienating everyone.
We are a QDMA Chapter of less then a year old, no lobbiest, many of us are in this to help educate and here we are in the middle of this mess. I'll repeat what I said before, our stance is to support the current regulations as they stand. We would hope the DNR would ask our input on impacts, but the only influence we have right now is to get QDMA to hold FOI accountable, which we are trying to do. IBA is much stronger then us and has much more clout then us and we would be more then happy to support them in any efforts they put forth to squash this.
I guess with that being said, we are open to suggestions if there is something we can do to help.
The QDMA Pres. of our Mid Iowa Chapter did reach out to FOI today to share our discontent with them and how they have unprofessionally put QDMA into their marketing. Realistically QDMA should have no part of this battle, but FOI pulled us in. They should have never used QDMA on their website and secondly, whatever their agenda is should have involved the grassroots of this state instead of alienating everyone.
We are a QDMA Chapter of less then a year old, no lobbiest, many of us are in this to help educate and here we are in the middle of this mess. I'll repeat what I said before, our stance is to support the current regulations as they stand. We would hope the DNR would ask our input on impacts, but the only influence we have right now is to get QDMA to hold FOI accountable, which we are trying to do. IBA is much stronger then us and has much more clout then us and we would be more then happy to support them in any efforts they put forth to squash this.
I guess with that being said, we are open to suggestions if there is something we can do to help.
FarmlandQDM
New Member
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: midwestfoodplots</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Realistically QDMA should have no part of this battle ... </div></div>
I understand your chapter feeling like it has been drug into this mess simply because a few individuals with a selfish agenda tried to legitimatize their cause by quoting the national organization we are both members of. I know your intentions are good for the future of deer hunting in Iowa but I disagree with your above statement ... the national QDMA office should be in this battle!
One of the ways QDMA funds raised in Iowa could help Iowa's deer herd is in our legislature. Since the majority of the money raised at QDMA banquets gets shipped back to Georgia, the least the national QDMA office could do is help residents of Iowa lobby against groups that intend to change a successful deer management program that has enabled our state to have one of the highest quality deer herds in the nation.
Mickey's website paints a picture of Iowa's deer herd that sounds like it is on the verge of collapse. I think of all the hard won battles by the Iowa Bowhunters Assoc. and the Iowa Conservation Alliance that have kept the Farm Bureau from having their way with our deer herd and exterminating what they consider a nuisance species. Contrary to Mickey's ridiculous "testimonial", Iowa still has a quality deer herd because of the hard work these two groups have done in our legislature. Now the Farm Bureau has a nationally known deer biologist that describes what a terrible job the Iowa DNR has done managing our deer herd, who has also provided a list of what he considers biological reasons why we need to have longer gun seasons and more hunters ... not sure why he didn't mention his desire to have longer gun seasons with more NR tags so he can sell more hunts. I wouldn't be surpirsed if I read that Dr. Mickey recieves the Iowa Farm Bureau's Deer Manager of the Year Award. Teamed up with the Farm Bureau, Mickey's lobbyng efforts could prove successful at severely reducing the quality of a deer herd that has become impressive to so many hunters across the country. I would assume this would at least warrant some attention from an organization called the Quality Deer Management Association.
I would hope QDMA will get involved and assist Iowans in protecting deer management that has worked. If the national organization does not help regional QDMA chapters defend sound deer management legislation I would like to know what our local QDMA chapters are sending them money for.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: midwestfoodplots</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Realistically QDMA should have no part of this battle ... </div></div>
I understand your chapter feeling like it has been drug into this mess simply because a few individuals with a selfish agenda tried to legitimatize their cause by quoting the national organization we are both members of. I know your intentions are good for the future of deer hunting in Iowa but I disagree with your above statement ... the national QDMA office should be in this battle!
One of the ways QDMA funds raised in Iowa could help Iowa's deer herd is in our legislature. Since the majority of the money raised at QDMA banquets gets shipped back to Georgia, the least the national QDMA office could do is help residents of Iowa lobby against groups that intend to change a successful deer management program that has enabled our state to have one of the highest quality deer herds in the nation.
Mickey's website paints a picture of Iowa's deer herd that sounds like it is on the verge of collapse. I think of all the hard won battles by the Iowa Bowhunters Assoc. and the Iowa Conservation Alliance that have kept the Farm Bureau from having their way with our deer herd and exterminating what they consider a nuisance species. Contrary to Mickey's ridiculous "testimonial", Iowa still has a quality deer herd because of the hard work these two groups have done in our legislature. Now the Farm Bureau has a nationally known deer biologist that describes what a terrible job the Iowa DNR has done managing our deer herd, who has also provided a list of what he considers biological reasons why we need to have longer gun seasons and more hunters ... not sure why he didn't mention his desire to have longer gun seasons with more NR tags so he can sell more hunts. I wouldn't be surpirsed if I read that Dr. Mickey recieves the Iowa Farm Bureau's Deer Manager of the Year Award. Teamed up with the Farm Bureau, Mickey's lobbyng efforts could prove successful at severely reducing the quality of a deer herd that has become impressive to so many hunters across the country. I would assume this would at least warrant some attention from an organization called the Quality Deer Management Association.
I would hope QDMA will get involved and assist Iowans in protecting deer management that has worked. If the national organization does not help regional QDMA chapters defend sound deer management legislation I would like to know what our local QDMA chapters are sending them money for.
Boonie Rat
New Member
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website
Following this post did get me too join the IBA so I guess it wasn't a total waste of time. Being a lowest common denominator who has lost hunting rights to NR land buyouts and leasing/outfitting I guess it was about time, eh? The argument I'll leave to the more eloquent, I'll just get banned if i open my mouth on this subject.
Following this post did get me too join the IBA so I guess it wasn't a total waste of time. Being a lowest common denominator who has lost hunting rights to NR land buyouts and leasing/outfitting I guess it was about time, eh? The argument I'll leave to the more eloquent, I'll just get banned if i open my mouth on this subject.
Grasshopper
New Member
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website
I agree completely. "Facts" and statistics can be spun a hundred ways to make a point...just ask a politician.
I find the whole post by Orion to be full of questionable information. Regarding the "acres lost to development and farming" point, I'd like to hear that from a realtor in southern Iowa...
And another issue. If Iowa's "heyday" in big buck numbers is past (his opinion), consider the following numbers, taken directly from the B&C record book.
Iowa B&C entries, typical category:
1978-'87: 62
1988-'97: 203
1998-'08: 215
Iowa B&C entries, non-typ category:
1978-'87: 44
1988-'97: 124
1998-'08: 155
Of course B&C entries are only one measure of a quality deer herd (I'd argue access and opportunity are at least as important; who cares if there 100 trophies/acre, if no one can hunt them?), but this was the measure he used...and not very well, IMO.
I guess the main thing that disturbed me about that whole post was his belief that leasing was an inevitability. That may or may not be true, but even if that's a fact, why hasten the process? If NR quotas are relaxed and NRLO either sex tags made available, the leasing/pay-to-hunt scenario will change dramatically...OVERNIGHT!
I agree completely. "Facts" and statistics can be spun a hundred ways to make a point...just ask a politician.
I find the whole post by Orion to be full of questionable information. Regarding the "acres lost to development and farming" point, I'd like to hear that from a realtor in southern Iowa...
And another issue. If Iowa's "heyday" in big buck numbers is past (his opinion), consider the following numbers, taken directly from the B&C record book.
Iowa B&C entries, typical category:
1978-'87: 62
1988-'97: 203
1998-'08: 215
Iowa B&C entries, non-typ category:
1978-'87: 44
1988-'97: 124
1998-'08: 155
Of course B&C entries are only one measure of a quality deer herd (I'd argue access and opportunity are at least as important; who cares if there 100 trophies/acre, if no one can hunt them?), but this was the measure he used...and not very well, IMO.
I guess the main thing that disturbed me about that whole post was his belief that leasing was an inevitability. That may or may not be true, but even if that's a fact, why hasten the process? If NR quotas are relaxed and NRLO either sex tags made available, the leasing/pay-to-hunt scenario will change dramatically...OVERNIGHT!
Re: Nonresident Landowners, check out this website
THA4,
From what I understand, feel free to correct me, but Iowa State University is pretty much the authority regarding farmland statistics, facts and trends in the state of Iowa.
Also, if you read the study the increase in NR land ownership does account for property purchased for reasons other than farming to include hunting and other recreational activities. If you don't mind please name your source and I will glady stand down.
THA4,
From what I understand, feel free to correct me, but Iowa State University is pretty much the authority regarding farmland statistics, facts and trends in the state of Iowa.
Also, if you read the study the increase in NR land ownership does account for property purchased for reasons other than farming to include hunting and other recreational activities. If you don't mind please name your source and I will glady stand down.