dbltree
Super Moderator
No one to two ounces per acre my sprayer does about a 1/2 acre so I usually barely an ounce in it...
No one to two ounces per acre my sprayer does about a 1/2 acre so I usually barely an ounce in it...
dbltree
Super Moderator
Fire is an extremely important tool in maintaining all NWSG's and the timing of the burn is equally important. Early spring burns encourage forbs and tend to thin stands while very late spring burns will set back invasives and thicken prairiegrass stands.
The warm weather has some of our native grasses starting to green up so we lit the place up April 28th
We had already tilled around the fields to create a safe fire break and with a strong south wind it didn't take long!
The straw from the native grasses burns intensely hot and fanned by winds races across the fields effectively wiping out everything in it's path including invasive brush.
The NWSG clumps are obvious after the burn
and they will quickly green up and dominate the invasives like brome and goldenrod
The deer runways stick out like sore thumbs after a burn!
Some places they were cut so deep that the fire actually went out and we had to restart it on the other side
Ideally one should burn different fields or segments each year leaving some standing cover for wildlife and whitetails. Here in SE Iowa more frequent burns are needed to stop the rapid advance of invasives as the native grasses grow so think and tall they tend to smother themselves and that gives invasives an opening.
Where burning is not feasable...try mowing just as the native grasses start to green up rasing the mower up 6" off the ground. The mower can help break up thatch and straw and give the plants some "air" while also setting back invasive weeds and brush.
The blackend soil will warm quickly and the switchgrass already awakened by warm spring weather will spring to life over taking the cool season invasives....
The warm weather has some of our native grasses starting to green up so we lit the place up April 28th
We had already tilled around the fields to create a safe fire break and with a strong south wind it didn't take long!
The straw from the native grasses burns intensely hot and fanned by winds races across the fields effectively wiping out everything in it's path including invasive brush.
The NWSG clumps are obvious after the burn
and they will quickly green up and dominate the invasives like brome and goldenrod
The deer runways stick out like sore thumbs after a burn!
Some places they were cut so deep that the fire actually went out and we had to restart it on the other side
Ideally one should burn different fields or segments each year leaving some standing cover for wildlife and whitetails. Here in SE Iowa more frequent burns are needed to stop the rapid advance of invasives as the native grasses grow so think and tall they tend to smother themselves and that gives invasives an opening.
Where burning is not feasable...try mowing just as the native grasses start to green up rasing the mower up 6" off the ground. The mower can help break up thatch and straw and give the plants some "air" while also setting back invasive weeds and brush.
The blackend soil will warm quickly and the switchgrass already awakened by warm spring weather will spring to life over taking the cool season invasives....
dbltree
Super Moderator
I've mentioned many times the importance of fall killing sod before dormant seeding NWSG because it is difficult at best to kill it in the spring. Too much of the cool seasons are dormant in early April and will re-emerge even after spraying with gly.
Such is the case on a friends place where we did a winter seeding and a spring sod kill. One waterway especially the grasses remained dormant in the lower area and two years later we are still attempting to "clean" it up.
Along the edges some of the two year old switch was starting to emerge but not yet unfurled so I made a pass down thru the center with the sprayer and glyphosate.
I checked the other day and the fescue was dying and the switch was 6" tall and doing fine....pretty iffy deal at best but I did get away with it with just the right timing.
I'll keep an eye on it as the weather warms and look for any switch that may have been killed because the adult plants are still standing and will be well into summer.
None of my winter seeded switch has emerged yet but I expect to see some emergence in the next 2-3 weeks. Those with lighter sandier soils will likely see germination slightly sooner because the light soils warm sooner....
Such is the case on a friends place where we did a winter seeding and a spring sod kill. One waterway especially the grasses remained dormant in the lower area and two years later we are still attempting to "clean" it up.
Along the edges some of the two year old switch was starting to emerge but not yet unfurled so I made a pass down thru the center with the sprayer and glyphosate.
I checked the other day and the fescue was dying and the switch was 6" tall and doing fine....pretty iffy deal at best but I did get away with it with just the right timing.
I'll keep an eye on it as the weather warms and look for any switch that may have been killed because the adult plants are still standing and will be well into summer.
None of my winter seeded switch has emerged yet but I expect to see some emergence in the next 2-3 weeks. Those with lighter sandier soils will likely see germination slightly sooner because the light soils warm sooner....
Daver
PMA Member
Speaking of timing...
I don't have pictures to post, but I had killed a couple of spots last summer/fall in my mostly brome CRP. I mowed them short and then nuked them with gly and both spots looked pretty brown following that treatment. My plan was to frost seed this year in these two areas.
Forward to March 2nd, 2010, I broadcast my switch seed over some of the last snow of the year and things melted off over the next several days...perfect! Over the past two months though these areas greened up pretty well and then I checked to see if there was any switch coming on yet and to the best of my ability to determine I couldn't see any.
Sooooo, I then mowed both areas short on Saturday, May 1st, and then sprayed the remaining greenery with gly. I think I will be good, at least I hope so! :grin: My opinion now is that I should have set back all non-switch pretty good yet this spring with the mow/spray combo.
I am anxious to see if my tactic works out, but I am feeling pretty confident at this point. Thanks Paul for all of your advice and info, it is very much appreciated! :way:
I don't have pictures to post, but I had killed a couple of spots last summer/fall in my mostly brome CRP. I mowed them short and then nuked them with gly and both spots looked pretty brown following that treatment. My plan was to frost seed this year in these two areas.
Forward to March 2nd, 2010, I broadcast my switch seed over some of the last snow of the year and things melted off over the next several days...perfect! Over the past two months though these areas greened up pretty well and then I checked to see if there was any switch coming on yet and to the best of my ability to determine I couldn't see any.
Sooooo, I then mowed both areas short on Saturday, May 1st, and then sprayed the remaining greenery with gly. I think I will be good, at least I hope so! :grin: My opinion now is that I should have set back all non-switch pretty good yet this spring with the mow/spray combo.
I am anxious to see if my tactic works out, but I am feeling pretty confident at this point. Thanks Paul for all of your advice and info, it is very much appreciated! :way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
Pretty tough not to clip any of th switch and that won't hurt it at all, what is detrimental is cutting it close to the ground.
Always keep the mower up as high as possible 8-12" usually and of course, mowing is going to prevent the NWSG from reaching full height the first year as it would if herbicides were used rather then mowing...
Central Iowa
Life Member
dbltree
Super Moderator
I sprayed a switchgrass planted waterway in mid April back when unusually warm temps had everyone in a panic about spraying gly. Some switch was barely starting to emerge around the clump base of established switch so I applied 4 quarts of atrazine and 2 ounces of Oust XP to some areas that we had attempted a spring kill on the seeding year.
One area however I went ahead and sprayed gly because the cool seasons had overtaken the waterway.
Spring kills usually are not very effective and such was the case with this situation and still dormant cool seasons came up after being sprayed and of course inhibit switchgrass establishment.
Attempting to kill cool seasons after switch has been established requires spraying gly during a very very short window either in the spring before switch emerges or in the fall after switch goes dormant, neither are great options compared to fall killing before seeding.
So what happened in this case? I hit that "window" perfectly and after spraying with gly (along with atrazine and Oust XP) the cool seasons are dead as a door nail and the switch is doing fine!
Here is unsprayed cool season growth along the edge of the waterway
This is dying cool seasons after spraying with atrazine and Oust XP
This is dead cool seasons smoked by the gly/atrazine/oust combo
Underneath the dead thatch however the switch is emerging inscathed
In areas where we had previously gotten a good cool season kill the switch is clean and was 6' high last summer
This waterway was filled with massive snow drifts last winter crushing the switch/cool seasons in the center while the edges where it was switch alone stood better.
We'll continue to monitor the results of this spring " cleanup" but it is clear that mid April applications of gly are unlikely to have a severe impact on switchgrass unless it has reached the stage seen in the pics above...
One area however I went ahead and sprayed gly because the cool seasons had overtaken the waterway.
Spring kills usually are not very effective and such was the case with this situation and still dormant cool seasons came up after being sprayed and of course inhibit switchgrass establishment.
Attempting to kill cool seasons after switch has been established requires spraying gly during a very very short window either in the spring before switch emerges or in the fall after switch goes dormant, neither are great options compared to fall killing before seeding.
So what happened in this case? I hit that "window" perfectly and after spraying with gly (along with atrazine and Oust XP) the cool seasons are dead as a door nail and the switch is doing fine!
Here is unsprayed cool season growth along the edge of the waterway
This is dying cool seasons after spraying with atrazine and Oust XP
This is dead cool seasons smoked by the gly/atrazine/oust combo
Underneath the dead thatch however the switch is emerging inscathed
In areas where we had previously gotten a good cool season kill the switch is clean and was 6' high last summer
This waterway was filled with massive snow drifts last winter crushing the switch/cool seasons in the center while the edges where it was switch alone stood better.
We'll continue to monitor the results of this spring " cleanup" but it is clear that mid April applications of gly are unlikely to have a severe impact on switchgrass unless it has reached the stage seen in the pics above...
dbltree
Super Moderator
When I was spraying my tree plantings in late March with a combination of gly, Oust Xp and simazine I stopped and hosed down a switchgrass plant and a big blustem that happened to be at the end of the roa and easily identified.
Oust is very powerful and capabable of "cleaning" up a NWSG planting that has been established but full of invasives...but how much can thy take?
No way of knowing of course with a backpack sprayer exactly how much I applied but I had mixed to apply 2 ounces of Oust per acre when walking at an even pace.
In this case I just sprayed the entire plant base heavily to see what might happen but both plants appear completely unaffected.
The switch plant shoots are emerging and appear to be very healthy
The Big Bluestem is farther ahead and equally unaffected (notice the difference in growth betwen these two species however)
Herbicides like Plateau can work also (even on established switchgrass) but they are very expensive. Oust XP can be purchased in as little as 2 ounces incremements from Townsend Chemical for $6 an ounce making it very easy and economical for landowners to treat a small area without spending $300 for herbicides.
The same combination of 41% gly, oust xp and simazine (or atrazine) applied in very early April when the first cool seasons emerge will safely clean up many competing weeds and grasses in a stand of switch or a mixed NWSG stand. 2-3 ounces of Oust alone could also be applied in very late fall or early spring or right after doing a burn later in the spring.
Check the herbicide thread for links to Townsend Chemical and for labels and info on Oust and other herbicides.
Oust is very powerful and capabable of "cleaning" up a NWSG planting that has been established but full of invasives...but how much can thy take?
No way of knowing of course with a backpack sprayer exactly how much I applied but I had mixed to apply 2 ounces of Oust per acre when walking at an even pace.
In this case I just sprayed the entire plant base heavily to see what might happen but both plants appear completely unaffected.
The switch plant shoots are emerging and appear to be very healthy
The Big Bluestem is farther ahead and equally unaffected (notice the difference in growth betwen these two species however)
Herbicides like Plateau can work also (even on established switchgrass) but they are very expensive. Oust XP can be purchased in as little as 2 ounces incremements from Townsend Chemical for $6 an ounce making it very easy and economical for landowners to treat a small area without spending $300 for herbicides.
The same combination of 41% gly, oust xp and simazine (or atrazine) applied in very early April when the first cool seasons emerge will safely clean up many competing weeds and grasses in a stand of switch or a mixed NWSG stand. 2-3 ounces of Oust alone could also be applied in very late fall or early spring or right after doing a burn later in the spring.
Check the herbicide thread for links to Townsend Chemical and for labels and info on Oust and other herbicides.
dbltree
Super Moderator
Here are some pics after a late April burn...
This pic is of Indiangrass and switchgrass clumps emerging 2 weeks after being burned but note the dense mat of straw still packed tightly against the ground. This is a great example of how densely the NWSG straw can cover the soil and begin to suffocate itself.
Most places the straw burned in the intense heat and the warm season grasses quickly begin to grow.
Burning late in the spring helps to control cool season invasives and two that I deal with are goldenrod and blackberries
If the fire is hot enough it will smoke young locust trees as well but in some areas where native grasses were not burned in recent years, they have been over taken by goldenrod and there is simply no fuel in that stuff.
There the fire just dies out...
Once the NWSG has 3-4 leaves I'll hit the trouble spots with 2-4D to release the grasses and conduct more timely burns in those areas.
Temps are forecast in the low 90's for SE Iowa the last week of May, just the kind of weather that switchgrass thrives on and it should encourage rapid growth along with germination of seed in new plantings... :way:
This pic is of Indiangrass and switchgrass clumps emerging 2 weeks after being burned but note the dense mat of straw still packed tightly against the ground. This is a great example of how densely the NWSG straw can cover the soil and begin to suffocate itself.
Most places the straw burned in the intense heat and the warm season grasses quickly begin to grow.
Burning late in the spring helps to control cool season invasives and two that I deal with are goldenrod and blackberries
If the fire is hot enough it will smoke young locust trees as well but in some areas where native grasses were not burned in recent years, they have been over taken by goldenrod and there is simply no fuel in that stuff.
There the fire just dies out...
Once the NWSG has 3-4 leaves I'll hit the trouble spots with 2-4D to release the grasses and conduct more timely burns in those areas.
Temps are forecast in the low 90's for SE Iowa the last week of May, just the kind of weather that switchgrass thrives on and it should encourage rapid growth along with germination of seed in new plantings... :way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
The switch should start to thicken up this year but if not you can always frost seed additonal seed next winter.
Check the very fist post of this thread for more info on herbicides but 2-4D works for broadleaves after the switch has 3-4 leaves.
Use paramount for foxtail but it is pretty pricey...
BIGJEEPMAN
New Member
I just planted my switch c-i-r/big blue/indian grass this weekend. I spread seed by hand, the seed looked to small for my hand seeder. I took lime and split the site in to 4 and split seed also so I would not run short, I think I did a great job. I had killed the weeds last weekend and dug sight friday planted on sunday. I hope it comes up good. I will reseed next winter if it looks to thin.
BIGJEEPMAN
New Member
How long before my seed will come up, I planted big blue/indian/and C-I-R switch. Thanks
dbltree
Super Moderator
Yes...but since it is a pre-emergence herbicide it wil be more effective used before weeds emerge...won't hurt switchgrass that has emerged however.
If the weather stays warm it may not take too long for the big blue and indiangrass to germinate (7-10 days maybe) The CIR may be another story depending on how dormant it is...it often needs the wet chill of winter to stratify the seed so if spring planted, may not germinate until the following spring.
That being the reason we try to winter/frost seed switchgrass...
dbltree
Super Moderator
I broadcasted my Cave In Rock switchgrass seed on snow 3/4/2010 on sod that had been killed the previous September with 2 quarts 41% glyphosate, 2 ounces of Oust XP and 1 quart crop oil
I sprayed it with atrazine in late April and because of concerns that warm weather might spur early germination, I also sprayed some test areas (marked with flags) with glyphosate although I could find no switch germinating anywhere.
I checked the planting May 29th and at first glance it appears to just be a field of "dead stuff"
Closer inspection however reveals the tiny switch seedlings popping up after nearly a week of 90+ degree temps
There is nothing else coming up...period...
Switchgrass is a warm season grass and Cave In Rock a notoriously dormant and low to germinate switchgrass variety but once temps warm up into the "hot" range...CIR springs to life and growth is rapid and robust!
The crop field adjacent offers one an idea of annual grass and broadleaf growth where no herbicides have yet been applied.
This is wild big bluestem in the oust/atrazine treated area growing rapidly (already established plants)
Cool wet weather slows growth even of established switchgrass because it thrives on the hot humid days of summer that cause cool seasons to shrivel and go dormant. Weather then plays a huge part in switchgrass germination and subsequent growth but here in Iowa, year in year out it is rare to see germination before May 10th and this year has proven to be no exception....
I sprayed it with atrazine in late April and because of concerns that warm weather might spur early germination, I also sprayed some test areas (marked with flags) with glyphosate although I could find no switch germinating anywhere.
I checked the planting May 29th and at first glance it appears to just be a field of "dead stuff"
Closer inspection however reveals the tiny switch seedlings popping up after nearly a week of 90+ degree temps
There is nothing else coming up...period...
Switchgrass is a warm season grass and Cave In Rock a notoriously dormant and low to germinate switchgrass variety but once temps warm up into the "hot" range...CIR springs to life and growth is rapid and robust!
The crop field adjacent offers one an idea of annual grass and broadleaf growth where no herbicides have yet been applied.
This is wild big bluestem in the oust/atrazine treated area growing rapidly (already established plants)
Cool wet weather slows growth even of established switchgrass because it thrives on the hot humid days of summer that cause cool seasons to shrivel and go dormant. Weather then plays a huge part in switchgrass germination and subsequent growth but here in Iowa, year in year out it is rare to see germination before May 10th and this year has proven to be no exception....