dbltree
Super Moderator
I usually allow high winds to topple them in time but just use caution both when cutting and entering the area in the future.
I've had them tip over 20 minutes later and just about got knocked silly...
I usually allow high winds to topple them in time but just use caution both when cutting and entering the area in the future.
I've had them tip over 20 minutes later and just about got knocked silly...
dbltree
Super Moderator
Sitting in a tree stand on a neighbors farm I have permission to hunt, I can't help but notice that it could sure use some Timber Stand Improvement.
The oak tree in the center is surrounded by all kinds of less desirable tree species that need to be killed to free up the crop tree.
All around me there were stands of hickories that offered nothing positive in the way of whitetail habitat yet if not near a crop tree would not normally be considered "weed tree's" under a TSI forest stewardship plan.
These are the type of areas that would be better off hinged or girdled and treated to open up the understory rather then be left as is.
The hickories have a shading canopy that allows almost nothing to grow underneath.
Only yards away a different type of tree species that are less shading has allowed a natural succession to brushy, shrubby understory that is full of deer beds and runways. True TSI usually helps open up canopy and allows the same type of undergrowth to spring up.
Timber Stand Improvement usually involves girdling and chemically treating and weed trees in the same respect we weed our gardens to allow the crop tree to grow faster and to produce more/better/acorns crops. Hinging the weed trees is just away of utilizing the weed trees and converting them to potential bedding,cover and browse rather then just dead trees left to slowly slough away....
The oak tree in the center is surrounded by all kinds of less desirable tree species that need to be killed to free up the crop tree.
All around me there were stands of hickories that offered nothing positive in the way of whitetail habitat yet if not near a crop tree would not normally be considered "weed tree's" under a TSI forest stewardship plan.
These are the type of areas that would be better off hinged or girdled and treated to open up the understory rather then be left as is.
The hickories have a shading canopy that allows almost nothing to grow underneath.
Only yards away a different type of tree species that are less shading has allowed a natural succession to brushy, shrubby understory that is full of deer beds and runways. True TSI usually helps open up canopy and allows the same type of undergrowth to spring up.
Timber Stand Improvement usually involves girdling and chemically treating and weed trees in the same respect we weed our gardens to allow the crop tree to grow faster and to produce more/better/acorns crops. Hinging the weed trees is just away of utilizing the weed trees and converting them to potential bedding,cover and browse rather then just dead trees left to slowly slough away....
Packnasty
New Member
A very useful tip to anyone wanting to get rid of buckthorn or honeysuckle...
They hold onto their leaves longer than the natives, so the best time to cut them is in another couple of weeks. They'll be very easy to pick out and will stand out in the timber. Cut them down and have someone follow you spraying their stumps with glyphosate...but don't cut them without spraying them.
Very useful forum. Thanks DBltree!
They hold onto their leaves longer than the natives, so the best time to cut them is in another couple of weeks. They'll be very easy to pick out and will stand out in the timber. Cut them down and have someone follow you spraying their stumps with glyphosate...but don't cut them without spraying them.
Very useful forum. Thanks DBltree!
dbltree
Super Moderator
Good advice! :way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
I've been using Tordon so I can't say for certain on the other two but my forester tells me straight gly is just as effective as anything else.
Guess I ought to try a little experimenting...
dbltree
Super Moderator
Sweet! Both EQIP and WHIP offer TSI funding although it is only 1/3 what Iowa's REAP TSI cost share provides. Still...anything is a plus and you can apply the cash towards other habitat projects! :way:
letemgrow
PMA Member
Exactly my plan!! I will take what I can get that is free anyways....I have a lot of protex tree tubes to buy.
dbltree
Super Moderator
Some pics from a TSI project I did a while back....
example of Crop Tree and cull trees (marked X)
Looking skyward at same trees at competing canopy
Cull trees are girdled to kill them and release the crop tree
Reducing canopy allows the released crop tree to grow faster, produce more mast and also encourages oak regeneration
I hinge smaller trees in these areas but all the larger trees are girdled for not only my safety but to limit damages to crop trees. Large trees falling against the crop trees can damage limbs and open up wounds that make them susceptible to diseases such as oak wilt. Girdled trees open up canopy instantly but slough away slowly without causing harm to surrounding trees.
example of Crop Tree and cull trees (marked X)
Looking skyward at same trees at competing canopy
Cull trees are girdled to kill them and release the crop tree
Reducing canopy allows the released crop tree to grow faster, produce more mast and also encourages oak regeneration
I hinge smaller trees in these areas but all the larger trees are girdled for not only my safety but to limit damages to crop trees. Large trees falling against the crop trees can damage limbs and open up wounds that make them susceptible to diseases such as oak wilt. Girdled trees open up canopy instantly but slough away slowly without causing harm to surrounding trees.
letemgrow
PMA Member
How long is it taking you to cover an acre like in your pictures...with the larger trees? I have a 7 acre project to start in the next couple weeks. The MDC is paying me to cut down all the hickory and honey locusts....the real kicker is I get to keep the few swamp white oak and the lone bur oak standing....then I get to plant back into it whatever I want. Be it NWSG, shrubs, oaks etc....not a bad program.
dbltree
Super Moderator
Every stand is different but it takes me 1-2 hours per acre I suppose and I hinge all the ironwood and smaller hickory and elm which is far more time consuming then just girdling competing canopy....
letemgrow
PMA Member
Every stand is different but it takes me 1-2 hours per acre I suppose and I hinge all the ironwood and smaller hickory and elm which is far more time consuming then just girdling competing canopy....
Good!! I should be able to finish that job in 2 days...then it is on to other projects. :drink2:
letemgrow
PMA Member
126 acres may take me a tad longer Phil...
Be safe in the timber Phil...:way:
You will be a master no doubt by the time that job is over with. :drink2:
How is the PPE working out thus far?
IQDM
New Member
Logging
Today we took to the task of clear cutting a 2 acre poplar woods... The woods looks fairly open now, but in the summer there is no light getting to the forest floor.<O</O
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As you can see there is little to no browse within reach of the deer.<O</O
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We used an excavator to push some of the outside trees over in an experiment to see if the poplar trees will survive using this method. If so, then they are as good as hinge-cut! :way:<O</O
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We cut all the trees on the south half of the woods, leaving some standing on the north and west sides for wind protection. Cutting the southern trees will hopefully allow the much needed light to shine in under the trees left standing. <O</O
<O></O>
Cutting the trees high, left a 6' stump remaining. I felt this would provide at least some visual barrier/cover for the deer, not just an open hole in the forest. I don't know if this was a good idea or not, but it made sense at the time...<O</O
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Using a Skid steer and grapple, we took the trees and piled them up to funnel deer movement to cross a ditch at just the right spot!:way:
This was my first "Logging operation" other than hinging. So I tried some different things, learned some different things, and had some fun doing it! There isn't a better feeling of accomplishment than when you get done with a full day's work in the woods!
Today we took to the task of clear cutting a 2 acre poplar woods... The woods looks fairly open now, but in the summer there is no light getting to the forest floor.<O
</O
></O>As you can see there is little to no browse within reach of the deer.<O
</O
></O>We used an excavator to push some of the outside trees over in an experiment to see if the poplar trees will survive using this method. If so, then they are as good as hinge-cut! :way:<O
</O
<O
>
><O
>
>We cut all the trees on the south half of the woods, leaving some standing on the north and west sides for wind protection. Cutting the southern trees will hopefully allow the much needed light to shine in under the trees left standing. <O
</O
></O>Cutting the trees high, left a 6' stump remaining. I felt this would provide at least some visual barrier/cover for the deer, not just an open hole in the forest. I don't know if this was a good idea or not, but it made sense at the time...
<O</O
<O
>
>Using a Skid steer and grapple, we took the trees and piled them up to funnel deer movement to cross a ditch at just the right spot!:way:
This was my first "Logging operation" other than hinging. So I tried some different things, learned some different things, and had some fun doing it! There isn't a better feeling of accomplishment than when you get done with a full day's work in the woods!
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dbltree
Super Moderator
I suspect those stumps will send up a ton of new shoots but keep us posted on how those trees react to being cut. Nice work on the funneling efforts!! I often see people burning those trees when they could have been used to funnel deer...well done!
Timber Stand Improvement is usually crop tree release that includes marking and inventorying the crop trees, then doing a 4 sided release of any cull trees with competing canopy.
Marking the crop trees first makes it easier to go back through searching for competing trees
It's easy when the competing trees are "weed" trees like hickories, ash and basswood
but often we find clumps of white or red oaks and we must choose which ones to cull
TSI requires staring at the skyline a lot looking over the canopies
Look for full canopies and cull trees with thin spindly canopies
Opening up canopy will release young oaks
which will require thinning and culling in the future
but without TSI the young oaks will succumb to intense shading canopy
Give them a little light however and they will take off!
I usually bury the saw as I girdle so i don't need a double girdle
but use caution because you can see what is on the inside of the tree and sometimes even a light girdle can topple a tree with a rotted interior!
Clumps of American Basswood are a pain to girdle!
Maples are one species that I use a double girdle AND Tordon in the girdle!
This maple is still alive 3 years later with only one girdle
and is budding out once again
so I double girdled it with out Tordon just to see if I can kill it in that manner
A leaning tree can pinch a saw even with just a girdle
so when possible have a backup saw handy!
TSI is a relatively safe method of opening up canopy, increasing understory growth, encouraging oak regeneration, enhancing crop tree growth and mast production and providing more browse and cover for whitetails to boot.... :way:
Timber Stand Improvement is usually crop tree release that includes marking and inventorying the crop trees, then doing a 4 sided release of any cull trees with competing canopy.
Marking the crop trees first makes it easier to go back through searching for competing trees
It's easy when the competing trees are "weed" trees like hickories, ash and basswood
but often we find clumps of white or red oaks and we must choose which ones to cull
TSI requires staring at the skyline a lot looking over the canopies
Look for full canopies and cull trees with thin spindly canopies
Opening up canopy will release young oaks
which will require thinning and culling in the future
but without TSI the young oaks will succumb to intense shading canopy
Give them a little light however and they will take off!
I usually bury the saw as I girdle so i don't need a double girdle
but use caution because you can see what is on the inside of the tree and sometimes even a light girdle can topple a tree with a rotted interior!
Clumps of American Basswood are a pain to girdle!
Maples are one species that I use a double girdle AND Tordon in the girdle!
This maple is still alive 3 years later with only one girdle
and is budding out once again
so I double girdled it with out Tordon just to see if I can kill it in that manner
A leaning tree can pinch a saw even with just a girdle
so when possible have a backup saw handy!
TSI is a relatively safe method of opening up canopy, increasing understory growth, encouraging oak regeneration, enhancing crop tree growth and mast production and providing more browse and cover for whitetails to boot.... :way:
LANDROBBER13
Member
Well said and well done Dbltree. I would encourage anyone trying TSI to make all decisions first with paint. It is amazing how one's discernment changes when there is a sharp saw in his hands.
P.S. what is that green saw doing back in the picture?
P.S. what is that green saw doing back in the picture?
dbltree
Super Moderator
That's a great idea Phil! :way:
I kept the 20" Poulan and traded the 2 16" Poulan saws for a second Jonsared
The 20" runs like a top, probably cause it's older and made better....