TIP things
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Fishbonker
Life Member
In a nut shell (it's gonna be a pretty big nut) the DNR budget has been cut and continues to be cut. The DNR game enforcement division can't afford to keep up with the latest technology. Several COs came to a TIP meeting a few weeks ago, hat in hand, asking if TIP would donate the funds to acquire some equipment. The training and equipment costs 7500.00 with a federal subsidy. Normal cost of equipment and training is 15,000. Training at the 7500 rate is only available in GA. Part of the cost of the training is the cost of travel.
The equipment can download what ever is on a cell phone. The cell phones are only interrogated with either a search warrant or the owners consent. The information obtained can be and has been used to prosecute poachers.
This equipment cannot "eavesdrop" or "spy" on live conversations or data transmissions.
This equipment is available in Iowa through other agencies but not in a timely manner. The DNR does partner with other agencies in their enforcement actions.
The case below was made by the Iowa DNR using another agencies machine:
WPMI Local 15 News - Search Results
The following is an archived video story. The text content of that video story is available below for reference. The original video has been deleted and is no longer available.
Firefighter Indicted on Federal Charges
MOBILE, Ala. (WPMI) - A Mobile firefighter has been federally indicted. Robert Wilkins is charged with conspiracy and two counts of unlawful sale of wildlife. A federal grand jury from the Southern District of Iowa indicted him in late May. The three count indictment says the illegal activity had been going on since 2008. The indictment also says Wilkins provided a guide service, instructed people how to conceal illegally taken deer, and that he illegally transported antlers taken from white-tailed deer on the interstate.
"A lot of people place a high value on those antlers," said Kevin Baskins with the Iowa Department of Natural Resources.
Baskins says Iowa has become one of the top destinations in the country for white-tail deer hunting.
"We've probably seen an uptick in the last decade in illegal deer harvesting activities," said Baskins, "It's a pretty big problem."
Mobile Fire-Rescue confirms Wilkins was arrested in June by federal agents at a fire station on Airport Boulevard where he works but declined to comment further about the 24 year veteran of the department. Wilkins, too, declined comment about his case.
According to records, the government also seized a 1995 Ford F150 subercab pickup truck, a Winchester rifle, scope and a Browning BAR rifle.
His trial is set for November. If convicted, authorities say, he faces up to five years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines.
The "take home" message from the above case is sometimes these cases take years to finally get enough evidence to get a search warrant and when one is obtained the cell phones are an invaluable source of evidence.
In 2013 a large case was made against several poachers involved with video production. The poachers were using OTC tags from another state and tagging bucks in Iowa. At least two and maybe three (if I recall correctly) of the poachers were law enforcement officers in another state (unfortunately, this isn't that uncommon). When the COs finally had enough evidence to get a warrant the info on the cell phones cemented the case. One of the poachers is doing federal time.
Both of the above cases were aided by calls to the local COs and the TIP line.
I don't know if this helps explain the program or not. TIP is going to match up to 50% of the costs for the training and equipment (less if more is donated) so it is up to hunting and conservation groups to come up with at least 3750.
TIP works, this equipment works, we just need to work to get this done.
The equipment can download what ever is on a cell phone. The cell phones are only interrogated with either a search warrant or the owners consent. The information obtained can be and has been used to prosecute poachers.
This equipment cannot "eavesdrop" or "spy" on live conversations or data transmissions.
This equipment is available in Iowa through other agencies but not in a timely manner. The DNR does partner with other agencies in their enforcement actions.
The case below was made by the Iowa DNR using another agencies machine:
WPMI Local 15 News - Search Results
The following is an archived video story. The text content of that video story is available below for reference. The original video has been deleted and is no longer available.
Firefighter Indicted on Federal Charges
MOBILE, Ala. (WPMI) - A Mobile firefighter has been federally indicted. Robert Wilkins is charged with conspiracy and two counts of unlawful sale of wildlife. A federal grand jury from the Southern District of Iowa indicted him in late May. The three count indictment says the illegal activity had been going on since 2008. The indictment also says Wilkins provided a guide service, instructed people how to conceal illegally taken deer, and that he illegally transported antlers taken from white-tailed deer on the interstate.
"A lot of people place a high value on those antlers," said Kevin Baskins with the Iowa Department of Natural Resources.
Baskins says Iowa has become one of the top destinations in the country for white-tail deer hunting.
"We've probably seen an uptick in the last decade in illegal deer harvesting activities," said Baskins, "It's a pretty big problem."
Mobile Fire-Rescue confirms Wilkins was arrested in June by federal agents at a fire station on Airport Boulevard where he works but declined to comment further about the 24 year veteran of the department. Wilkins, too, declined comment about his case.
According to records, the government also seized a 1995 Ford F150 subercab pickup truck, a Winchester rifle, scope and a Browning BAR rifle.
His trial is set for November. If convicted, authorities say, he faces up to five years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines.
The "take home" message from the above case is sometimes these cases take years to finally get enough evidence to get a search warrant and when one is obtained the cell phones are an invaluable source of evidence.
In 2013 a large case was made against several poachers involved with video production. The poachers were using OTC tags from another state and tagging bucks in Iowa. At least two and maybe three (if I recall correctly) of the poachers were law enforcement officers in another state (unfortunately, this isn't that uncommon). When the COs finally had enough evidence to get a warrant the info on the cell phones cemented the case. One of the poachers is doing federal time.
Both of the above cases were aided by calls to the local COs and the TIP line.
I don't know if this helps explain the program or not. TIP is going to match up to 50% of the costs for the training and equipment (less if more is donated) so it is up to hunting and conservation groups to come up with at least 3750.
TIP works, this equipment works, we just need to work to get this done.
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Maybe we should look here for some money...
SSB 3217 is the bill that would fully fund the Natural Resources & Outdoor Recreation Trust Fund created by constitutional amendment (vote of the people) in 2010. It would provide over $150 million+ per year in constitutionally protected sustainable funding for:
SSB 3217 is the bill that would fully fund the Natural Resources & Outdoor Recreation Trust Fund created by constitutional amendment (vote of the people) in 2010. It would provide over $150 million+ per year in constitutionally protected sustainable funding for:
- - Wildlife Habitat Programs
- - Land Conservation
- - Watershed Projects
- - Wetlands Protections
- - Lake Restoration
- - Parks
- - County Conservation Boards
- - River Restoration
- - Agricultural Soil Conservation
I'm all for above. No question. Big picture items that are costly and very much worth the investment.
On the poaching end of things, something folks need to understand.... We are talking a completely different level of funds & magnitude. For example, whatever the discussion previously - $7,500-$15,000 - in the world of government, private organizations, state level impact - that amount is nothing.
When I refer to the "ROBO BUCK PROGRAM" we are also talking PEANUTS - NOTHING. Yes, after paying law, prosecuting, etc - there is cost there but there's a return above the cost. The amounts to put a huge dent in Iowa's massive poaching problem (and yes, that's my strong opinion, we have a massive problem - which I partially define as my BELIEF that every neighborhood has some poachers out killing many big bucks ever year - that's every neighborhood across the state I've ever ecountered).
I'm going to make some total guesses here or estimates.... Let's say it's $5,000 for a robo-buck x 30 to start = $150,000. Officers, prosecution, technology, equipment use past the robo-buck = $20,000 per robo buck. If each Robo-buck violation was fined at $10,000 to $15,000 and you could get 3, 4, 5 violations a year per Robo buck (which I personally think would be like taking candy from a baby & silly easy to do) - you'd be talking about doubling or tripling the cost & investment in one year. After that, the Robo-buck is paid off and only needs bullet hole maintanence from the lead it will take. Egregious poachers of the worst kind FINALLY get nailed in good #'s instead of guys like above being stopped 3 times for a license check. Honestly, I'd much much much rather have a neighborhood with a few guys running rampid without licenses than the other groups rifling bucks out at night & the evenings from the truck. This should be our priority with poaching with our limited CO time/budget right now, IMO. Obviously it would take some investment which is tough and some legislation but extremely do-able.
A side story..... I was hunting a farm of my buddies last year with him. We had a guy we saw park & watched from a distance. Sure enough, he busts into the posted land that he was not supposed to be at with a weapon. We fly out there and could not find him. Call the CO, he's not available (not his fault, I understand). In the message of CO, says to call the Sheriff. Called the Sheriff. He would NOT come out. Wouldn't do it. Said EXACTLY THIS "This is not our priority, that's the CO's job and we don't come out for that stuff." We called and asked for someone else at Sheriff's office "We will not be responding to anything like this". Buddy said "a guy has a weapon on my land right now, this could get nasty & I have no idea who it is and what's going on but I'm not allowing a guy with a weapon on my land". Response "We're not coming, we don't deal with this stuff and don't have time for petty things like this, GOODBYE". I swear that was almost exactly the conversation. Yes, the people had attitudes and are human, not wanting to do crap. Other offices would have been there in 5 minutes, not this one. We later called and escalated this up. The CO did finally get there and issue tickets and even he was appaulled at the Sheriff's office & understands the system is broken for variety of reasons.
Let me run this like a business. I'll write up the business plan for the robo bucks, the state will MAKE $ & we'll nail the worst of the worst. Relieving our CO's from having to deal with guys who have netted too many Butterflies and are over their Monarch & Tiger Butterfly limits.
On the poaching end of things, something folks need to understand.... We are talking a completely different level of funds & magnitude. For example, whatever the discussion previously - $7,500-$15,000 - in the world of government, private organizations, state level impact - that amount is nothing.
When I refer to the "ROBO BUCK PROGRAM" we are also talking PEANUTS - NOTHING. Yes, after paying law, prosecuting, etc - there is cost there but there's a return above the cost. The amounts to put a huge dent in Iowa's massive poaching problem (and yes, that's my strong opinion, we have a massive problem - which I partially define as my BELIEF that every neighborhood has some poachers out killing many big bucks ever year - that's every neighborhood across the state I've ever ecountered).
I'm going to make some total guesses here or estimates.... Let's say it's $5,000 for a robo-buck x 30 to start = $150,000. Officers, prosecution, technology, equipment use past the robo-buck = $20,000 per robo buck. If each Robo-buck violation was fined at $10,000 to $15,000 and you could get 3, 4, 5 violations a year per Robo buck (which I personally think would be like taking candy from a baby & silly easy to do) - you'd be talking about doubling or tripling the cost & investment in one year. After that, the Robo-buck is paid off and only needs bullet hole maintanence from the lead it will take. Egregious poachers of the worst kind FINALLY get nailed in good #'s instead of guys like above being stopped 3 times for a license check. Honestly, I'd much much much rather have a neighborhood with a few guys running rampid without licenses than the other groups rifling bucks out at night & the evenings from the truck. This should be our priority with poaching with our limited CO time/budget right now, IMO. Obviously it would take some investment which is tough and some legislation but extremely do-able.
A side story..... I was hunting a farm of my buddies last year with him. We had a guy we saw park & watched from a distance. Sure enough, he busts into the posted land that he was not supposed to be at with a weapon. We fly out there and could not find him. Call the CO, he's not available (not his fault, I understand). In the message of CO, says to call the Sheriff. Called the Sheriff. He would NOT come out. Wouldn't do it. Said EXACTLY THIS "This is not our priority, that's the CO's job and we don't come out for that stuff." We called and asked for someone else at Sheriff's office "We will not be responding to anything like this". Buddy said "a guy has a weapon on my land right now, this could get nasty & I have no idea who it is and what's going on but I'm not allowing a guy with a weapon on my land". Response "We're not coming, we don't deal with this stuff and don't have time for petty things like this, GOODBYE". I swear that was almost exactly the conversation. Yes, the people had attitudes and are human, not wanting to do crap. Other offices would have been there in 5 minutes, not this one. We later called and escalated this up. The CO did finally get there and issue tickets and even he was appaulled at the Sheriff's office & understands the system is broken for variety of reasons.
Let me run this like a business. I'll write up the business plan for the robo bucks, the state will MAKE $ & we'll nail the worst of the worst. Relieving our CO's from having to deal with guys who have netted too many Butterflies and are over their Monarch & Tiger Butterfly limits.
turtlshell
PMA Member
Exactly the problem. These are all state resources and being coordinated in the most inefficient way possible.
Your robo-deer idea would get more of my support than this invasive cellphone scam georgia vacation.
I really think the TIP resources are being wasted in this effort. Since a business model was brought up, I'll roll with it. Is it better to price one item at an astronomical value and sell one or two a year, or do you price them moderately and do a bunch of them?
The poaching problem is widespread, and this cellphone invasion garbage isn't going to help change it dramatically, nor will MDIP be a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. It's a kid requesting another toy, when the one he has isn't broken. He wants it just because one of his friends has one.
Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. The time and money being requested would be much better spent on ironing out the inefficiencies that are present in current system.
Daver
PMA Member
"There is a Federal program that will provide equipment and training for a Mobile Device Interrogation Program. The cost of the training for one Conservation Officer with the equipment included is $7500.00. If the DNR wanted to purchase the training and equipment without the Federal program it would cost $15,000.00." (From the original posting.)
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I admit that I may not be accurately understanding what the "Mobile Device Interrogation" is exactly. Perhaps there is more to the "law enforcement model" than what meets the eye, but it seems like the same device that is used at cell phone centers everywhere and those cost about $2000-$3000.
Again, there could be more to it than what I know about, but I'll be honest and say that when I read "federal program" my antenna went up and I became curious and even a little skeptical. My understanding from people that use such devices in cell phone centers is that the training lasts about 10-15 minutes, or less.
Is it possible to provide CO's with a tool like what is found in the cell phone centers? If so, it looks like there could be a pretty substantial savings.
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I admit that I may not be accurately understanding what the "Mobile Device Interrogation" is exactly. Perhaps there is more to the "law enforcement model" than what meets the eye, but it seems like the same device that is used at cell phone centers everywhere and those cost about $2000-$3000.
Again, there could be more to it than what I know about, but I'll be honest and say that when I read "federal program" my antenna went up and I became curious and even a little skeptical. My understanding from people that use such devices in cell phone centers is that the training lasts about 10-15 minutes, or less.
Is it possible to provide CO's with a tool like what is found in the cell phone centers? If so, it looks like there could be a pretty substantial savings.
turtlshell
PMA Member
Good to hear...and it was all completed WITHOUT the gadgetry being requested in this post.
Iowafarmboy
Member
I just keep the C.O. for my counties i hunt in my phone and call directly. Nailed 2 poachers with slam dunk information in the last 5 years. They were both doe poachings, but hopefully get them thinking next time they try to do it illegally. Both times the C.O. said they'd put me in for a tip reward and I never heard anything else again. Not that I really care about the money, would of been cool though.
Fishbonker
Life Member
We all drink Kool-Aid, you're drinking your flavor and I'm drinking mine. I know on this issue you won't drink mine and I won't drink yours. That's OK. I doubt I've ever changed anybody's mind I'm just trying to inform, as I'm sure you are, so those who want to drink Kool-Aid can choose their flavor.
For Daver, I don't have an answer why cell phone companies have the same machine for less. The only reason I can think of, if it is the same machine etc, is the forensics part. Possibly in the same way a crime scene technician needs to be certified in evidence collection perhaps the LEA/LEO using the machine has to be certified for the evidence to be admissible.
For Sligh 1, Iowa had/has a robo deer program. It may or may not still be in existence. The program may or may not have been scaled back with an eye toward safety for the house that may or may not be over the hill from the robo deer that may or may not be in existence. The State may or may not be afraid of lawsuits caused from a poacher shooting at a robo deer and hitting an unintended target causing damage that the State may or may not be liable for.
For iabwhntr, I'm not sure if you are trolling here or not. There is a renewed push this election year to get Iowa's Water and Land Legacy in front of candidates. Again, depending on your flavor of Kool-Aid you are either for it or against it. There were lengthy threads on this topic back in '09-'10.
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Fishbonker
Life Member
Thanks for taking an active roll in stopping poaching. I'm not sure what happened with the CO's request for a reward. All I can say is in the few years I've been on the TIP Board any case that is presented gets something.
CurtisWalker
Well-Known Member
Iowa has a robo deer program. Used to be a buck decoy used in Boone a lot right on the triangle of timber west of the race track.
We had a crossbow poacher this year that shot 3-4 bucks and left them lay, one was in the wide open field next to the road with the bolt sticking straight up out of the deer. I went down to check it out and the sheriffs had me pull the bolt out and they went on their way. We reported it to the CO and he said he'd look into it.
Skip forward to this spring, driving down the gravel road a half mile from the place the bucks were being shot, I noticed a funny looking doe out in a pasture. I continue and when I top the hill it was a local trooper set up with the decoy. I hope they use it this fall and put some antlers on it
We had a crossbow poacher this year that shot 3-4 bucks and left them lay, one was in the wide open field next to the road with the bolt sticking straight up out of the deer. I went down to check it out and the sheriffs had me pull the bolt out and they went on their way. We reported it to the CO and he said he'd look into it.
Skip forward to this spring, driving down the gravel road a half mile from the place the bucks were being shot, I noticed a funny looking doe out in a pasture. I continue and when I top the hill it was a local trooper set up with the decoy. I hope they use it this fall and put some antlers on it
Fishbonker
Life Member
http://tipofiowa.org/articles/decoys.html
I found this link to an article this morning. It is dated 2003 and was originally written for Outdoor Iowa.
In 2003 the discussion was about using decoys, 10 years later its about using electronics. What will it be in another 10 years? I hope we are all around to find out.
I found this link to an article this morning. It is dated 2003 and was originally written for Outdoor Iowa.
In 2003 the discussion was about using decoys, 10 years later its about using electronics. What will it be in another 10 years? I hope we are all around to find out.
turtlshell
PMA Member
Well said...CHEERS! :drink2:
Great article. Good gosh does this subject need to be brought up. Again....
1) Could be legislated for huge fines (like the $15-20k for "large bucks" now in place in iowa that passed legislature) & huge revenue during times where budgets on CO's have been cut.
2) Would target the worst of the worst (IMO - guys in most neighborhoods where you see, find or realize the road hunters & poachers have done some serious damage). I personally haven't been in a neighborhood without some periodic evening & nighttime rifle shots. Unfortunately, I've had to call in, 1st hand, the results of some of those shots, poached bucks along the road. Had the most egregious incident 5 years ago when I called the CO after 2 groups had been coming through almost every night on a buddy's farm/area and I snuck up on them to take pictures after calling the CO (yes, I was pretty careful considering they were armed but they took off). Every neighborhood I know or have been in has poachers on the lose & without decoys, way too hard to catch them.
3) Free up officer's time - eventually the most egregious will be weeded out. We could easily hire more officers from the REVENUE from this, creating more time for officers. Allows officers to focus time on the most egregious instead of "petty violations" (IMO). OPINION - I see some investigations that take a whole lot of time & resources to nail a guy on ONE buck (say taken without a tag or a lot of variations of egregiousness) where the guy who is taking 5, 10, 20 bucks at night with stealth is "too hard to catch" and I personally know guys who are still going strong with the poaching large amount of bucks. Let's be real, if a guy is involved in the neighborhood he hunts, almost everyone around can generally give you 1-2 names of "REGULAR POACHERS" you need to watch out for and keep an eye on. We all hear this anywhere we go, correct me if you think I'm wrong. Every neighborhood I've been in "You better watch over John Smith, massive poacher. Get your cameras out & hidden and make sure you screen your road views or you're going to have bucks poached". Why is almost every land owner on this site focused like a laser on creating road screens (Shrubs, Egyptian wheat, cedars, etc)???? We have a big problem and as far as game violations go, this is the worst problem we have, by far, in my opinion.
Let's create jobs, destroy the WORST poachers, save countless bucks & does from being wasted from poachers, make the poachers paranoid, free up CO time & create a huge new source of revenue for the state. It's time, this is 2014 and we have technology & abilities that would make this lock-tight.