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Tree Farmer to go on Trial next week:

loneranger

Well-Known Member
I was listening to WHO this morning and they had on the air that tree farmer who wants to shoot as many deer as it takes to protect his farm. He is supposed to go before a jury next week. This was a call in show, and every call was anti-deer. Farmers, suburbanites, all complaining about their crops or tulips, and saying go out at night and kill all the vermin you can. This feeling twards nature is not new. The same attitude was in the pioneers. Nature was a savage that had to be tamed. Even though today,,nature has been subdued almost out of exsistence, by our sprawl and malls, many could care less about it. Means little in there manmade world. I wanted to call in and defend Nature but was out for my morning walk.
 
Why hasn't this guy just put a fence up? I see many vineyards, tree farms and other landscaping type places with fences that appear to work pretty well.
 
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kill all the vermin you can. This feeling twards nature is not new. The same attitude was in the pioneers. Nature was a savage that had to be tamed.

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I think this attitude is shared by hunters and non-hunters alike. Search and read any thread posted on mountain lions, bob cats, coyotes, etc. and you will see what I mean.
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One persons vermin might be deer, another persons is a predator.
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The same people that call in to these shows and say "shoot em all" are usually the same people that won't give you permission to hunt when you ask.
 
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He is supposed to go before a jury next week. This was a call in show, and every call was anti-deer.

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It is going to be a jury trial in Cedar County where there are lots of deer and lots of farmers. There is a lot of anti-deer sentiment lately. Any bets on how this turns out?

I'm thinking he walks.
 
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Any bets on how this turns out?

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Were his actions within the law? I bet they get it right, no matter how many sympathizers he has corner of the ring.
 
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Why hasn't this guy just put a fence up? I see many vineyards, tree farms and other landscaping type places with fences that appear to work pretty well.

[/ QUOTE ]Probably the high cost of a fence if it is a big tree farm would be my guess.
 
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Any bets on how this turns out?

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Were his actions within the law? I bet they get it right, no matter how many sympathizers he has corner of the ring.

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Whether his actions were legal is at the core of this. He is basing his defense on a 1912 law that says farmers have the right to defend their livelihood from "vermin" (VERY loose paraphrase). He wants to test this law.
 
I know the man and the area quite well. Matter of fact I've purchased trees from...let's call him KK.

There is a lot of depth to this story. Please don't pass KK off as just a poacher. This man is well educated and has asked for special permits from the DNR which have been denied. I know in states like Michigan if a farmer can prove crop damage they can get 10 or more tags to fill. Don't quote me, but they may be predation tags...for deer, I can't remeber. Anyway, KK after a couple of years of losing trees shot a doe in his tree farm. He then called the DNR to report his action and was written a citation. Now I don't think he should have taken the law into his own hands, but he wanted to heard I guess. I wish KK would have asked for hunters help.

I'm interested to see what comes from this trial. I'm a betting man and I will bet this is not an in and out case. There are a lot of points to made and addressed in this case. KK, has years of research and evidence proving his fine is a lot less than the profits he's lost.

I call this a case of "push someone far enough they'll break." If your income depended on a specialized crop that has been decimated by deer, you might see it differently.

Again, I don't support breaking the law...but I understand why KK did what he did. The DNR could have provided KK some better options than ignoring him, IMO.

At any rate I will predict that this will not be an in and out case.
 
I don't know much about this individual and his actions other than what I've read in the paper and on here. Just let me say, I too own a tree farm and have contacted the Iowa DNR wanting help protecting my trees. I know exactly how this individual feels, my issue (losing 200 6-8ft trees)fell on deaf ears. Basically I was told I was "stupid" to plant trees in this location. My options included high fencing more than five acres of the farm or going to the zoo and hauling lion sh*t because he had heard that it worked pretty well as a deer repellent. Do I agree with his actions, "No" but he definitely got somebody to finally listen to him.

Just my 2 cents.......
 
I throw my 2 cents in

I dont own a tree farm but this guy killing a few extra deer sure isnt going to hurt the population much.

Why isnt the DNR going after the farmers who kill predatory animals (like cougars etc....) for killing their cattle.
I see it the same way because those animals are killing his cattle which is his lively hood.

Killing those deer are keeping his lively hood alive.

I bet even if he looses it isnt going to keep him from killing deer if they keep damaging his lively hood. He will jsut keep more quiet of it next time
 
Part of what might make this case different is depredation tags might have to be issued for bucks as alot of his damage is from rubs. It would also be interesting to know if he has allowed huntig or tried to manage in other ways. If he does win I know alot of people who will start "protecting" their four dollar corn by killing everthing they see year round.
 
I happened to hear the last 1/2 hour of MR. Kline on the Jan Michelson show on Friday. I had heard of this incident before and as I understand it this has been an ongoing conflict since 2003. This man claims it is his RIGHT to shoot any and all deer he finds any where on his land in order to protect his trees. There had been incidents that the DNR had looked into prior to the last one that lead to the citations. In the final incident he killed more than 1 doe and then intentionally called the DNR to report it just to get the issue to a trial venue.

I did manage to get into the show in the second hour to express a small portion of my thoughts. I fell that he should be held accountable on several levels. First and formost, he knew that his actions were ILLEGAL. He was told on several ocassions by the DNR that it was illegal and that he could apply for depravation tags, but he said he felt it wasn't necesary just to protect his property. I couldn't get in until well after Mr. Kline was off the air, so I asked Mr Michelson if Mr. Kline allowed hunting on his land, because I have heard that he does not, and he said he had never thought to ask that. DUH!! Jan also went on to say that that probably would not help with a "migrateting" animal like deer and that there wasn't a deer season open now any way. I explained to him that deer don't migrate and that if hunting were allowed it would help remove at least as many of the offending deer as Mr. Kline chose to shoot legally. I was suprised that Mr Michelson did agree that this might be a viable alternative.

Another issue, for me at least, is the wanton waste of shooting these deer and then just leaving them. The wanton waste laws say that all consumable parts can't be left in the field. Several callers said that they knew of people who shoot deer and turkeys that they feel are damaging their crops and then just push them into a ditch to rot and that was fine with them because they wern't much better than vermin. There was a lot of joking and laughs about just trying to pop them at night with a rifle and flash light which I found offensive.

Jan's major position was that a man should absolutly have the right to protect his property in this manner. Another caller and myself both tried to explain that this is not that simple of an issue and that every person could not take it upon themselves to protect their property in this manner. The other caller brought up a friend with a fish farm that had losses from herons and eagles, both protected species, which would both be federal crimes if shot. I tried to explain about orchard owners and their losses from song birds like robins, which are also federally protected, or free range hog farmers losses from eagles. He was clueless about such things and tried to make a couple of jokes, but finaly confessed to being conflicted about the eagles with their status of national symbles. He did finally admit on the air that if it came down to his lively hood or the eagles, the eagles would lose. Another thing that bugged me was Jan's expressions of praise for Mr. Kline's response when he asked him if he would be willing to pay the DNR $12. for tags to remove the deer. Mr. Kline said he would not and that he would not put a price tag on defending his rights. To me this is the statement of an arragnat man who is much more interested in making a hugh issue of this, for his own selfserving reasons, than actually finding a way to protect his trees. I didn't hear him even address any other measures such as fencing, but I may have just missed that. Grain farmers put up fences to keep neighbors livestock out and aren't at liberty to shoot cows or horses that get into their corn fields. Game farms put up fences to keep deer and other game in and are even required to remove the existing wild populations before introducing their own animals. In Mr. Kline's instance fenceing would be a very viable soultion but he doesn't want to spend the money, even though it would be tax deductibel, so that all the rest would actually be paying for it any way.

In case you didn't notice, this radio program really ticked me off. Almost all of the callers were either totally ignorant of, or at least under informed, reguarding deer and wildlife issues and thought the DNR should even allow deer hunting year round. Some talked about the numbers of dead deer along the highways from car accidents but most were in urban areas which don't allow much , if any, hunting. Most of us understand these issues and have commented on here about them in the past, but we are really preaching to the chior. We need to find a way or form to educate some of these people who only view deer as ravagers who, as a caller said, start at one end of a property and eat every thing clear to the other side and are good for nothing else. How can we do this??
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I know a christmas tree farmer that hates deer. He nevers seems to fill a tag. He shoots one every other day it seems like but never seems to be able to find them. I think he gut shoots them on purpose.
 
Hans, the trouble isn't from bucks rubbing the trees. It's from the small trees having their growing parts (the most desireable to deer) being chewed off early in spring and eventually it kills the tree.

Bowmaker - several great points. His name is Kelley, not Kline. I agree he went above the law and should not have, therefore he does deserve some punishment.

You can not have hunters on a x-mas tree farm during the shotgun seasons because after Thanksgiving is the biggest amount of use of this farm for business. I agree Mr. Kelley should have found a few bowhunters and a few people with extra doe tags for Cedar county to come hunt his ground before Thanksgiving and after X-mas(during the Jan. Doe only season)

I agree that an animal with a food value should not just be left in a field to rot. What a waste.
 
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You can not have hunters on a x-mas tree farm during the shotgun seasons because after Thanksgiving is the biggest amount of use of this farm for business.

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One drive on Saturday AM before opening the farm for business, one on Sunday AM.
 
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You can not have hunters on a x-mas tree farm during the shotgun seasons because after Thanksgiving is the biggest amount of use of this farm for business.

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One drive on Saturday AM before opening the farm for business, one on Sunday AM.

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Plenty of "ways and means" of taking advantage of current seasons to reduce his deer problem that's for sure.

Deer as do all wildlife belong to ALL of the people of Iowa, so if he or anyone else wants to "steal" from us he should have to pay restitution
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Sorry about the name, I had a senior moment, but every thing else is accurate. Thanks for the correction. I think I do have to agree with the others, if he really wants to protect the trees he could work in a hunting program very easily.
 
I just must get back to my original opinion. The vast majority of people are cut off from Nature. They see it of little value, just a nuisance. We are arrogant, and think this Planet is ours for the taking. We have forgotten, or do not believe it is a gift given to us by our Maker. Who we will have to answer to someday. Jan,, on WHO, likes to quote the Bible, sometimes. He should read Rev. chap 4. It says all things were created for HIS, pleasure, not just ours. With so little of wildness left, and nature being turned into housing and pavement at a rapid rate, it is hard for me to understand why people would not enjoy holding on to what we have left. There are ways to co-exsist with wildlife. I don;t have a tree business, but have planted thousands, and have seen deer destroy many. I still don't hold hatred for them.
 
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