Clover

[dbltree]

July 10th, 2011

We are entering in to the hot and dry part of the summer for many of us which is not the best time to be clipping our clovers. When possible get them clipped (primarily for weeds) in June and then again in late August or early September unless you are blessed with plenty of rainfall through out the summer.

I ordered clethodim from Rural King the other day and it was at my house in 2 days! Shipping was $19 and even at that, it's still the least expensive source I have found thus far.

Rural King - Source for clethodim

Clethodim is of course a grass selective herbicide for those not familiar with it and Butyrac 200 is a broadleaf herbicide safe for use in clovers (not chicory)

Both clethodim (known as Select, Arrow, Shadow among others) and Butyrac 200 (2-4DB) are usually available at your local co-op but here is an online source for Butyrac as well.

Butyrac 200 source

Use 8 ounces of clethodim per acre and 1 quart of crop oil for grass control and 1-3 quarts per acre of Butyrac 200. Mixing the two can reduce the effectiveness of the clethodim so where possible spray them separately.

 

[dbltree]

It doesn't take much healthy white clover to keep a lot of deer fat and happy and coming back for more! I use even very narrow strips along the edge of food plots or corp fields next to edge feathered timber...like this strip...

Combined with the abundant natural browse created by the edge feathering, it fulfills their needs nearly year around.

In this picture you can see deer feeding in both the strip plot as well as the strip of clover along the timber in the background right side.

The lush clover helps keep deer from challenging the fenced soybeans, yet keeps them coming to a specific central feeding area.

Don't overlook the value of clover in even the smallest amounts in tiny unused areas...

 

[medicsnoke]

Dbltree,

I just closed on a 138 acre farm in Ohio, this will be the first time I can plant and manage my land for deer exactly how I want. The property was contracted to select cut before I bought the farm and he is moving out this week-end leaving me with lots of open dirt logging trails and some open dirt around the soy bean fields where he stacked/cut and loaded logs. I plan on ordering seed, Inoculate and herbicide this week. I have a few questions before I get started.

When should I spray the herbicide in relation to planting?

In the fields I plan on planting some clover with oat mix/ then a Brassica Mix.

I plan on using white and jumbo ladino clover at 5-8 lb. per acre ....but how much Oat seed do I mix to that?

The Brassica mix, does it need a Inoculate added to it as well? How about inoculate to Turnips

Will the Triple 19 Fertilizer work for both plots?

Also I would like to seed the logging trails.....can you recommend something that will grow good with little sunlight? Or is their no such thing?

 

[dbltree]

Dbltree,

I just closed on a 138 acre farm in Ohio, this will be the first time I can plant and manage my land for deer exactly how I want. The property was contracted to select cut before I bought the farm and he is moving out this week-end leaving me with lots of open dirt logging trails and some open dirt around the soy bean fields where he stacked/cut and loaded logs. I plan on ordering seed, Inoculate and herbicide this week. I have a few questions before I get started.

When should I spray the herbicide in relation to planting?

if the logging trails are nothing but dirt, spraying may not be needed. If they have a lot of cool season grasses then spray ASAP and give them 3-7 days before tilling.

In the fields I plan on planting some clover with oat mix/ then a Brassica Mix.

I plan on using white and jumbo ladino clover at 5-8 lb. per acre ....but how much Oat seed do I mix to that?

I use 60-80#'s of oats for a nurse crop or higher amounts if planting in the fall. See the cereal grain thread because there are more options for a late August seeding.

The Brassica mix, does it need a Inoculate added to it as well? How about inoculate to Turnips

No...brassicas are not legumes so they do not fix their own nitrogen. You need to add up to 200#'s of urea per acre to provide the needed nitrogen.

Will the Triple 19 Fertilizer work for both plots?

It will but you don't need nitrogen for clovers sow while it won't hurt, your paying for something you don't need. Triple 19 will work great for the brassicas but you'll need about 400#'s per acre.

Also I would like to seed the logging trails.....can you recommend something that will grow good with little sunlight? Or is their no such thing?

Clover may work if there is enough sunlight but if it's too shaded there is little that will really work well. Sometimes you just have to give it a try and see what happens.

You'll need plenty of pellet lime because timbered areas are usually very acidic.

Take a look thru the brassica and cereal grain threads for more on those crops, including recent posts for updated information. :way:

 

[jerred44]

It hasn't rained on my clover plots in Illinois for 3-4 weeks, but the weeds in one plot are still growing, and grass in the other, the clover looks ok considering no rain, but not great, should I wait for one good rain or can I spray to kill the weeds and grassses without stressing the clover? I would b spraying butyrac and clethodium. I dont think its supposed to rain for at least another week.

 

[dbltree]

It hasn't rained on my clover plots in Illinois for 3-4 weeks, but the weeds in one plot are still growing, and grass in the other, the clover looks ok considering no rain, but not great, should I wait for one good rain or can I spray to kill the weeds and grasses without stressing the clover? I would b spraying butyrac and clethodim. I don't think its supposed to rain for at least another week.

It will stress the clover spraying during a time when it is already under duress but probably not cause any real damage or harm if you want to spray now. The weeds really aren't causing any real harm either (short term) so you might weigh which is the lessor of two evils so to speak.

 

[KSQ2]

Dbltree, at what rate do you frost seed alice into an existing alice plot? I just want to thickin it up a little bit. I'll be ordering from welters in about three weeks and want to order enough for frost seeding at the same time, that shipping isn't cheap!

 

[dbltree]

Dbltree, at what rate do you frost seed alice into an existing alice plot? I just want to thickin it up a little bit. I'll be ordering from welters in about three weeks and want to order enough for frost seeding at the same time, that shipping isn't cheap!

2-4#'s if it just has some thin spots...

 

[KSQ2]

Dbltree, I should have included this question in my last post, will I be alright purchasing Alice clover in August and planting it in Feb.? Also, is innoculant hard to find that time of year? What is its shelf life?

 

[Bowhunting_Madman]

What to do?

This spring I created a new food plot and planted a clover and chicory mix. Due to unfortunate circumstances was not able to mow until early July...plot was covered with foxtail...at this point what is the best move to clean up plot? Spray now with Arrest? Till under, nuke with roundup and plant fall plot? I just want to get rid of the foxtail if possible!! Open to ideas and thoughts. Thanks!!

 

[LoessHillsArcher]

If you still have a good stand of clover and chicory you could spray the plot with 8oz per acre of Clethodim and some crop oil, should clean up any grasses very well for you!

 

[dbltree]

If you still have a good stand of clover and chicory you could spray the plot with 8oz per acre of Clethodim and some crop oil, should clean up any grasses very well for you!

I agree...spraying would be less likely to cause smothering of clover seedlings underneath. We've all "been there done that" but in the future give fall seeding a try by using winter rye and sowing your clover in late August...you will never again experience this problem....:way:

(read the cereal grain thread for more details)

 

[Bowhunting_Madman]

Absolutely will!!! I've read the DBLTree forum about 8 times through over last 2 months...just starting out it's trial and error til some experience is built.

Would Selectmax also be an option for spraying clover/chicory?

Thanks for the help!!!

 

[jerred44]

I know your supposed to rotate crops so u dont get disease on your plots, like with Brassicas. but what about clover? r u supposed to rotate clover with something else? I know my last clover plot lasted 5 or 6 years, should I have rotated something else in for a year before replanting clover?

 

[dbltree]

Would Selectmax also be an option for spraying clover/chicory?

You bet! Select Max is clethodim...a grass selective herbicide safe on broadleaf plants.

I know your supposed to rotate crops so u dont get disease on your plots, like with Brassicas. but what about clover? r u supposed to rotate clover with something else? I know my last clover plot lasted 5 or 6 years, should I have rotated something else in for a year before replanting clover?

It's always best to rotate ALL crops including clover...

 

[mshm99]

Rural King also sells bean oil at a good price.

http://www.ruralking.com/bean-oil-2-5-gallon.html

I heard you in St.Louis and learned a lot. Learned even more here.

Thank you for all your help.

Mike

 

[scottonbuck]

Paul I have a quick question for you, I sprayed for grasses in my clover roughly14 days ago but I have a nuisance weed/grass that I have forgotten the name to which has tried to take over during these wet springs. It looks like grass but the stem is a triangular shape. Aaron Palm told me what it was and I have forgotten. Anyways back to the question it seemed to survive a heavy dose of Select with the 2-4DB kill this stuff and not the clover. What are you thoughts and suggestions. It would make your job of answering easier if I could remember things. The select seemed to slow some down while majority of this plant is thriving.
Thanks in advance
James.

 

[dbltree]

Paul I have a quick question for you, I sprayed for grasses in my clover roughly14 days ago but I have a nuisance weed/grass that I have forgotten the name to which has tried to take over during these wet springs. It looks like grass but the stem is a triangular shape. Aaron Palm told me what it was and I have forgotten. Anyways back to the question it seemed to survive a heavy dose of Select with the 2-4DB kill this stuff and not the clover. What are you thoughts and suggestions. It would make your job of answering easier if I could remember things. The select seemed to slow some down while majority of this plant is thriving.
Thanks in advance
James.

It's nutsedge I'm sure...probably need to use something like Sedgehammer to kill it, it's not a "grass" so clethodim won't do the job. Glyphosate will kill it so sometimes a pint per acre on healthy white clover in the spring will do the trick without killing the clover but don't try it this time of year when it's under stress.

Should be a link to sedgehammer in the herbicide thread and here's a link to more info on sedges and herbicides that kill them.

The Best Herbicide for Sedge

Just read labels and make sure they are safe to apply to broadleaves like clovers

 

[dbltree]

July 24th, 2011

Drought periods can dramatically affect clovers and when searing hot sun sends temps near 100 for weeks combined with lack of rainfall, white clover begins to take on a "rust" color in it's leaves.

This is often disconcerting to landowners concerned that their clover is dying but when rains and cooler temps return, so will the healthy color. In some cases in extremely droughty soils that lack organic matter the clover will appear to literally burn up and die but usually it just goes into a state of dormancy. This is a small area on an area of very poor subsoil clay that with plentiful rainfall can grow healthy clover...after nearly 4 weeks with out a drop of rain and blast furnace heat every day...it's going to "sleep" until things improve!

This is the soil...about as poor clay as you can find

Cracks big enough to slip your hand in!

A few yards away however where the soil is better the clover looks much better

and in slightly lower areas with more moisture both white and red clovers look great!

I prefer drought resistant clovers such as Alice and Durana on areas with poor drought prone soils because they will survive while clovers marketed by WTI, Biologic and others literally wither and die.

Here's a link to more infor on drought and white clovers Sensitivity of net photosynthesis to soil drought in white clover

Studys on Adaptability of White Clower (Trifolium Repens L) to Drought Stress

Try to avoid mowing your clover during periods of extreme drought stress if you can avoid it....

 

[Nontypcl1]

Glyphosate will kill it so sometimes a pint per acre on healthy white clover in the spring will do the trick

I have sprayed a lot of nutsedge and have never had gly give a good kill on it. It will kill some but usually will only yellow it and then in a few weeks the nutsedge starts to green up again. That is with 2qts/acre + AMS + crop oil. I also sprayed my white clover this spring at 1qt per acre gly with AMS and crop oil and it nuked all the weeds except nutsedge. If it were me I would definitely look into sedgehammer if you really want to get rid of it. Otherwise IMHO you will continue to have the same problems.