bowtine
New Member
Xtec Shooter,
I'm with you on this one. Obivously Pupster's example is an extreme case and I don't agree with killing 6 bucks in one year either. I honestly think very few of us would consider doing that, legal or not. However, it is legal. I know that I am hunting second shotgun (in a group) with a antlerless tag. I can promise you that I will do everything possible to fill that antlerless tag! I can also promise you that if a BUCK OF A LIFETIME comes by and it is legal for me to shoot him and I have permission by those in my group to fill a buck tag, I'm going to shoot him. There it is, I said it!! If I can come up with the tag for it as Ghost said, then I would shoot him. I think more of us would readily do this than will admit. Sorry for those of you that are upset by this. I think we are making hunting too political anymore. Just go out, hunt, and follow the laws. If you do that you shouldn't be ridiculed for it.
"a trophy deer is a legally taken deer, buck or doe"
I'm with you on this one. Obivously Pupster's example is an extreme case and I don't agree with killing 6 bucks in one year either. I honestly think very few of us would consider doing that, legal or not. However, it is legal. I know that I am hunting second shotgun (in a group) with a antlerless tag. I can promise you that I will do everything possible to fill that antlerless tag! I can also promise you that if a BUCK OF A LIFETIME comes by and it is legal for me to shoot him and I have permission by those in my group to fill a buck tag, I'm going to shoot him. There it is, I said it!! If I can come up with the tag for it as Ghost said, then I would shoot him. I think more of us would readily do this than will admit. Sorry for those of you that are upset by this. I think we are making hunting too political anymore. Just go out, hunt, and follow the laws. If you do that you shouldn't be ridiculed for it.
"a trophy deer is a legally taken deer, buck or doe"
Liv4Rut
Active Member
Anyone know a group of good ole boys that dont mind if someone fills their buck tags if they get a shot at a mature buck during second season? If you know them, have them give me a call
I will work the system if you guys don't.
![shrug[1].gif](https://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug[1].gif)
Id rather have 1 guys shoot 10 mature bucks instead of 10 guys shooting 10 bucks ranging from 1.5 year old to 3.5 year olds
actually I could care less what people do, as long as they are having fun, shoot them all.
XTECH
Sometimes I have a hard time getting my points across. I didn't say this person did anything illegal, but I do think he did something ethically wrong. Let's say one of those tags he filled was yours. Would you be proud enough of the horns to spend $500 to have it mounted even though you didn't shoot it, or would you be just as happy with a nice doe to put in the freezer. The ethical aspect comes in because we here are constantly bombarded with pressure to harvest does and in this case not only were the extra bucks killed instead of does, but his own doe tag went unfilled. If the nonshooting hunters don't care about the horns enough to mount them why not allow some one else the chance at them who might care enough? Our whole program for deer management for several years has been doe harvest and I do think it is very selfish for one hunter to take 4 or 5 or 6 bucks just for the sake of saying he killed bucks. No I don't think that they belong to me or to any one else, but I do think people who would respect them more should have an opprotunity to harvest them rather than one selfish hunter shooting them just to give them away, which is what you should be doing when you put someone else's tag on them. I am in favor of party hunting, but I think using it to kill extra bucks instead of does is unethical in our present situation. The only reason he could even buy the tag in the first place is because the DNR wants to increase the doe harvest and to use it exactly the opposite manner is just wrong even if it isn't illegal.
Sometimes I have a hard time getting my points across. I didn't say this person did anything illegal, but I do think he did something ethically wrong. Let's say one of those tags he filled was yours. Would you be proud enough of the horns to spend $500 to have it mounted even though you didn't shoot it, or would you be just as happy with a nice doe to put in the freezer. The ethical aspect comes in because we here are constantly bombarded with pressure to harvest does and in this case not only were the extra bucks killed instead of does, but his own doe tag went unfilled. If the nonshooting hunters don't care about the horns enough to mount them why not allow some one else the chance at them who might care enough? Our whole program for deer management for several years has been doe harvest and I do think it is very selfish for one hunter to take 4 or 5 or 6 bucks just for the sake of saying he killed bucks. No I don't think that they belong to me or to any one else, but I do think people who would respect them more should have an opprotunity to harvest them rather than one selfish hunter shooting them just to give them away, which is what you should be doing when you put someone else's tag on them. I am in favor of party hunting, but I think using it to kill extra bucks instead of does is unethical in our present situation. The only reason he could even buy the tag in the first place is because the DNR wants to increase the doe harvest and to use it exactly the opposite manner is just wrong even if it isn't illegal.
IADEERHUNTER
New Member
I do not have a problem with someone with a doe tag shooting a buck, I will put my tag on their buck, who is to say that I would get a chance to shhot a buck myself, if a big boy walks buy someone better shoot at it. If you shot it it is your deer, I do not care whos tag is on it. I do not make the laws but I will follow them and make them work to my advantage until the law makers change them laws.
dblmainbeam
Member
I would bet that most party hunters aren't trophy hunting. They want to go out and hunt. Hope they get a chance at a big one. If there are ten tags and one guy shoots all ten you don't here much complaining. Next year it might be the guy who never got a shot. Usually its the same group of hunters every year. Most of them are just glad to get the meat. The group I hunt with will fill as many tags as they can and split up the meat evenly after the season.
I enjoy party hunting when people aren't running deer down with pickups or when there are alot of inexperienced hunters in the party. I guess you could say I was working the system if you want. I bought a first season anterless tag so i could go late season. I did not shoot a buck. I was not hunting to shoot another buck just to hunt with the boys. I had a blast!!!
I enjoy party hunting when people aren't running deer down with pickups or when there are alot of inexperienced hunters in the party. I guess you could say I was working the system if you want. I bought a first season anterless tag so i could go late season. I did not shoot a buck. I was not hunting to shoot another buck just to hunt with the boys. I had a blast!!!
Guys I don't have a problem with a person with a doe tag shooting a buck in a party if there is a tag for it , especially if it is a big ole boy. I do, however have a problem with that same person shooting 4 or 5 bucks in a party whether they are big or small, and I didn't read anything about any of them being monsters. I think it just becomes a matter of respect for others and the deer. I pretty well agree with you about if some one else shoots a deer that is theirs even if my tag is on it but the DNR doesn't see posession the same way. If your tag is on a deer it is your deer and not your buddy's, so that could create some problems with transport. The point is if you have a doe license because the DNR wants more does killed you should make every effort to see that that doe tag is filled either by you or some one else and not use it as a excuse to shoot little basket racks just because it might be legal. To maybe put it in a different context, it would be perfectly legal for Steve Alford to play his 5 worst players for the whole game in a Big Ten champ game when the point spread favors Iowa, but it would be reprehensible to loose basicly on purpose, wouldn't it?
G6
Active Member
[ QUOTE ]
XTECH
Sometimes I have a hard time getting my points across. I didn't say this person did anything illegal, but I do think he did something ethically wrong. Let's say one of those tags he filled was yours. Would you be proud enough of the horns to spend $500 to have it mounted even though you didn't shoot it, or would you be just as happy with a nice doe to put in the freezer. The ethical aspect comes in because we here are constantly bombarded with pressure to harvest does and in this case not only were the extra bucks killed instead of does, but his own doe tag went unfilled. If the nonshooting hunters don't care about the horns enough to mount them why not allow some one else the chance at them who might care enough? Our whole program for deer management for several years has been doe harvest and I do think it is very selfish for one hunter to take 4 or 5 or 6 bucks just for the sake of saying he killed bucks. No I don't think that they belong to me or to any one else, but I do think people who would respect them more should have an opprotunity to harvest them rather than one selfish hunter shooting them just to give them away, which is what you should be doing when you put someone else's tag on them. I am in favor of party hunting, but I think using it to kill extra bucks instead of does is unethical in our present situation. The only reason he could even buy the tag in the first place is because the DNR wants to increase the doe harvest and to use it exactly the opposite manner is just wrong even if it isn't illegal.
[/ QUOTE ] I have to totally agree with you and one word says it all "SELFISH"! If that ONE hunter couldn't have bought that doe tag then there would be 4 more bucks out there running around. Now we have a doe still running around out there that can breed or maybe has been bred to have more fawns. I'd say things backfired on that plan. I bought a couple doe tags for the second season and plan on shooting two does on them or nothing, even if I could hunt with a group and buck hunt. I bought the tags for the intended purpose and to hunt a little more.
XTECH
Sometimes I have a hard time getting my points across. I didn't say this person did anything illegal, but I do think he did something ethically wrong. Let's say one of those tags he filled was yours. Would you be proud enough of the horns to spend $500 to have it mounted even though you didn't shoot it, or would you be just as happy with a nice doe to put in the freezer. The ethical aspect comes in because we here are constantly bombarded with pressure to harvest does and in this case not only were the extra bucks killed instead of does, but his own doe tag went unfilled. If the nonshooting hunters don't care about the horns enough to mount them why not allow some one else the chance at them who might care enough? Our whole program for deer management for several years has been doe harvest and I do think it is very selfish for one hunter to take 4 or 5 or 6 bucks just for the sake of saying he killed bucks. No I don't think that they belong to me or to any one else, but I do think people who would respect them more should have an opprotunity to harvest them rather than one selfish hunter shooting them just to give them away, which is what you should be doing when you put someone else's tag on them. I am in favor of party hunting, but I think using it to kill extra bucks instead of does is unethical in our present situation. The only reason he could even buy the tag in the first place is because the DNR wants to increase the doe harvest and to use it exactly the opposite manner is just wrong even if it isn't illegal.
[/ QUOTE ] I have to totally agree with you and one word says it all "SELFISH"! If that ONE hunter couldn't have bought that doe tag then there would be 4 more bucks out there running around. Now we have a doe still running around out there that can breed or maybe has been bred to have more fawns. I'd say things backfired on that plan. I bought a couple doe tags for the second season and plan on shooting two does on them or nothing, even if I could hunt with a group and buck hunt. I bought the tags for the intended purpose and to hunt a little more.
G6
Active Member
[ QUOTE ]
I would bet that most party hunters aren't trophy hunting. They want to go out and hunt. Hope they get a chance at a big one. If there are ten tags and one guy shoots all ten you don't here much complaining. Next year it might be the guy who never got a shot. Usually its the same group of hunters every year. Most of them are just glad to get the meat. The group I hunt with will fill as many tags as they can and split up the meat evenly after the season.
I enjoy party hunting when people aren't running deer down with pickups or when there are alot of inexperienced hunters in the party. I guess you could say I was working the system if you want. I bought a first season anterless tag so i could go late season. I did not shoot a buck. I was not hunting to shoot another buck just to hunt with the boys. I had a blast!!!
[/ QUOTE ]There's nothing wrong with what your reason was for going in my book, it's the person taking advantage of the system just to be greedy and selfish.
I would bet that most party hunters aren't trophy hunting. They want to go out and hunt. Hope they get a chance at a big one. If there are ten tags and one guy shoots all ten you don't here much complaining. Next year it might be the guy who never got a shot. Usually its the same group of hunters every year. Most of them are just glad to get the meat. The group I hunt with will fill as many tags as they can and split up the meat evenly after the season.
I enjoy party hunting when people aren't running deer down with pickups or when there are alot of inexperienced hunters in the party. I guess you could say I was working the system if you want. I bought a first season anterless tag so i could go late season. I did not shoot a buck. I was not hunting to shoot another buck just to hunt with the boys. I had a blast!!!
[/ QUOTE ]There's nothing wrong with what your reason was for going in my book, it's the person taking advantage of the system just to be greedy and selfish.
dblmainbeam
Member
[/ QUOTE ] it's the person taking advantage of the system just to be greedy and selfish.
[/ QUOTE ]
I totally agree.
[/ QUOTE ]
I totally agree.
150 Class
Well-Known Member
Working the system version #1 is how difficult it is to know what tags you can or cannot get with which seasons. The two page deal in the deer regs simplifies that quite a bit. But if you want it more simple, give the hunter the choice of one either sex bow tag and one either sex gun tag and then allow doe tags for only the seasons that he has either sex for.
Working the system #2 is how us hunters can legally play the system and extend our buck hunting opportunities. It has nothing to do with the intent which is the harvest of more does. The party hunting system makes it legal. Even without party hunting, the resident doe tag is nothing more than the NR version of their doe tag that we call a "temptation tag".
[ QUOTE ]
I do not make the laws but I will follow them and make them work to my advantage until the law makers change them laws.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly the reason why I am strongly against the doe tags being good for all seasons. Intent vs. legal or illegal use can be two very different things. People WILL work the system.
Working the system #2 is how us hunters can legally play the system and extend our buck hunting opportunities. It has nothing to do with the intent which is the harvest of more does. The party hunting system makes it legal. Even without party hunting, the resident doe tag is nothing more than the NR version of their doe tag that we call a "temptation tag".
[ QUOTE ]
I do not make the laws but I will follow them and make them work to my advantage until the law makers change them laws.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly the reason why I am strongly against the doe tags being good for all seasons. Intent vs. legal or illegal use can be two very different things. People WILL work the system.
G6
Active Member
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly the reason why I am strongly against the doe tags being good for all seasons. Intent vs. legal or illegal use can be two very different things. People WILL work the system.
[/ QUOTE ] I'd say your probably right it would just be more people out there doing exactly what they're doing right now, not to mention less sales if they don't expire.
Exactly the reason why I am strongly against the doe tags being good for all seasons. Intent vs. legal or illegal use can be two very different things. People WILL work the system.
[/ QUOTE ] I'd say your probably right it would just be more people out there doing exactly what they're doing right now, not to mention less sales if they don't expire.
CR Archer
Member
My feelings it is how you view deer hunting - I choose to bow hunt and muzzeload hunt by myself for my own deer. I enjoy the peace and solitude of being out there doing what I can to outwit a large game animal.
I did hunt the 3 day anterless hunt this year just like bow hunting. I sat in my stand and shot a very large doe the third hour of the season.
I do not take a "trophy" deer every year but about every third. I do harvest a buck every year with my bow. Call it a "pride thing" or whatever but it takes skill, patience and luck to harvest a buck with a bow no matter the size.
It appears as a majority of the folks on this board hunt they way I do, with many concentrating on the larger deer.
However, to each their own. I do not "brand" people a certain way because of how or why they hunt, or as to what they harvest.
If people in a group - GROUP hunt and it is legal to shoot a buck while carrying a doe tag it is at the decision of the group as to let it happen.
I did hunt the 3 day anterless hunt this year just like bow hunting. I sat in my stand and shot a very large doe the third hour of the season.
I do not take a "trophy" deer every year but about every third. I do harvest a buck every year with my bow. Call it a "pride thing" or whatever but it takes skill, patience and luck to harvest a buck with a bow no matter the size.
It appears as a majority of the folks on this board hunt they way I do, with many concentrating on the larger deer.
However, to each their own. I do not "brand" people a certain way because of how or why they hunt, or as to what they harvest.
If people in a group - GROUP hunt and it is legal to shoot a buck while carrying a doe tag it is at the decision of the group as to let it happen.
N
njc
Guest
RE : working the system.....
Ghost, I am a firm believer in " We dont make the laws but should abide by them". Some people just are never happy and always worried about the other guy. As long as that guy is legal and loves the outdoors WHO CARES? As for myself I have put 3 does in the freezer before a buck and Have taken an early muzzleloader buck in a special area zone that is not in the statewide quota so this alows a bow buck and Late muzzleloader buck tag and a doe tag for shotgun 1. The rules need to be more cut and dry I agree but you make it sound like a guy like myself who has spent 200 hours this year in the woods with an obsession for the outdoors, deer meat, and big horns and kills four bucks is unethical? Who does'nt like to see and be able to kill a booner when given the chance? "HUNT EM IF YOU CAN!"
Ghost, I am a firm believer in " We dont make the laws but should abide by them". Some people just are never happy and always worried about the other guy. As long as that guy is legal and loves the outdoors WHO CARES? As for myself I have put 3 does in the freezer before a buck and Have taken an early muzzleloader buck in a special area zone that is not in the statewide quota so this alows a bow buck and Late muzzleloader buck tag and a doe tag for shotgun 1. The rules need to be more cut and dry I agree but you make it sound like a guy like myself who has spent 200 hours this year in the woods with an obsession for the outdoors, deer meat, and big horns and kills four bucks is unethical? Who does'nt like to see and be able to kill a booner when given the chance? "HUNT EM IF YOU CAN!"
Critter
Life Member
I think the real problem with all of this lies a little more deeply in places that we're not allowed to monitor or have a say in. (i.e. The State and the IADNR) This past Friday I ventured into Gander Mountain to purchase of pair of pac boots. ( Me and my feet are worthless when it get's really cold out.) So.....I walk in at 5:30 or so in the afternoon and am completely awstruck at the amount of people in the store. After a few seconds, it dawns on me that these guys are all here for shotgun season opener. After making my way through the crowd, I head to the boot section and find a pair of boots that I think my help my toes out a little. The next morning I'm planning on filling my last antlerless bow tag in the State Park close to my house.( It's a limited draw area that allows bowhunting during the gun season.) I grab the boots and proceed to the counter that is completely engulfed by every hunter from the surrounding three counties.
As I wait patiently, I begin to notice a few things that seem to become quite common among the other hunters waiting in line. Most of them are holding anywhere between 4 to 10 boxes of slugs in their hands. Almost half of the hunters are standing at the main counter because they need to purchase their hunting license and also their tag. Two different times I hear the mention of an out-of-state hunter that only needs a doe tag to party hunt. And last but not least, no-one seems to know what the extra dollar for the HUSH program is for.
So......I conclude from this that most of these hunters, and I say most because I won't stereotype them all, haven't sighted their guns in before season opener, or are just hoping their guns are still "on" from last year. Most of these hunters found it necessary to carry anywhere from 20 to 50 slugs with them during their short 5 day hunt. Most of these hunters are probably "weekend warriors" and haven't hunted anything before this opener. And last but not least, most of these hunters haven't been educated or informed of some of the best deer hunting news that's came out in the past two years.(The HUSH program) Although, some of them seem to have been educated as to the "loop-holes" offered to the non-residents regaurding the antlerless tag and the party hunting. So.....how does all this make me feel? Not very good. I spend more than my fair share of time involving myself with deer hunting throughout the year. It doesn't just start the day before the seaon opener. It actually starts in January and February trying to find a few sheds. Although I suck at it, and haven't found very many, it's a chance to learn something new about an area or a certain buck that you hadn't known about already. March comes along with the Deer Classic and the IBA Banquet, which is more entertaining than anything else, but it's still a good place to learn something and meet with old aquaintences.
Once the snow melts and the temps. increase a little bit, you'll find myself and my family at a 3-D shoot most weekends that I have off. Between the shoots, and my backyard, I'll probably spend as much time practicing as I will hunting during the fall. July, August and September, I'll spend a-lot of time in my truck glassing different fields, video-taping, and setting trail cameras in different areas that I think might have some potential for the upcoming season. After the 1st of October, you can find me in a tree........providing I'm not at work, on this site, or doing something with my kids and wife.
So, after all this rambling, you probably wondering where I'm going with all this, so here it is. Why, after all the time and effort I put into this sport every year, should an out-of-state hunter be allowed to come in the day before gun season opener and be allowed to shoot a buck with a doe tag???
Why, after all the time I spend practicing throughout the year, should a resident be allowed to pull his gun out of the closet, fill it with slugs, and hope for the best when a huge buck that I've studied all year long is pushed in front of him by his out-of-state buddy who's carrying a doe tag. Why is it that some knucklehead with a .270 can take a poke at a monster buck that's shed his antlers already from 200 yards away during the late high power season? Why doesn't everyone who deer hunts already understands what the letter HUSH stands for??? I seem to ask myself these questions year in and year out, but I can never give myself a clear answer. The regulations are stated clearly, yet they aren't ment to be easily understood. Politics and money are the ones writing the regulations every year, and the more money that can be made from this sport, the more difficult things will be to understand. It's been said before, but I'll say it again. Enjoy what we've got right now, even though we've already seen the start to the future of hunting in this state. The state and the IADNR have a plan, and I don't think we're part of it. I would really love to see how much money the State made from this years different deer seasons. I'd be willing to bet it'll be an eye opener......for myself and for the one's taking it all in.